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Fabian
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Post subject: Balance  Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 12:29 pm |
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| Ronimo Team Member |
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Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 7:06 pm
Posts: 497
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To make it easier for not me comment on balance issues, please post all your balance feedback in this topic. 
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Fabian
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Post subject: Re: Balance Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 12:31 pm |
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| Ronimo Team Member |
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Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 7:06 pm
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first a personal message I received from Deadpool:Quote: I know it is early, the game is only a day old but...
I spent the day playing with a friend (him Leon, me Voltar, third player random). He used his Dummy more than his cloak, increasing its health and giving it an attack, thus TRIPPLING his DPS against Turrets. With Voltar healing the images and bots around, he can drop Turrets and the enemy base in just a few seconds.
I'd also say Voltar may be a bit too good at fighting for a healer. Fully upgrade the drone count, attack speed, and damage and they are DEADLY (10 damage a pop, 4 at a time at high speed is INSANE). Also, since he doesn't technically shoot, he can run circles around most other characters while his drones rip them and turrets to shreds.
We literally only lost a single match... At the end, when we started messing around with new strategies and the enemy copied our old strategy.
Maybe lower the damage the Dummy does when it DOES attack would be helpful... Maybe lower the damage boost Voltar gets to 8 max would help? Or maybe 3 drones? Not sure.
Also, Turrets also lock on to whatever is NEAREST. With the drones floating around they tend to change targets so often they can't really damage ANYTHING. Voltar can outheal the Turret's damage at base healing level (+7 HP) as long as he has 3-4 orbs distracting it.
Obviously, I could be WAY wrong and these things could be easily surmountable. Maybe not. Just figured it was worth looking into.
Amazing game either way. Looking forward to DLC and whatever else you guys got planned! and here my reply  Quote: I spent the day playing with a friend (him Leon, me Voltar, third player random). He used his Dummy more than his cloak, increasing its health and giving it an attack, thus TRIPPLING his DPS against Turrets. With Voltar healing the images and bots around, he can drop Turrets and the enemy base in just a few seconds. What you are describing we call the 'clone army' strategy at Ronimo. It only works well when you have all the damage upgrades, from Leon's main attack. So early on it isn't a very good strategy. Depening on the lenght of a game, it becomes more powerfull. However we get the same feeling that we should nerf the damage from images against turrets, many skills in the game have a damage modifier on turrets. We are going to look into it.Quote: I'd also say Voltar may be a bit too good at fighting for a healer. Fully upgrade the drone count, attack speed, and damage and they are DEADLY (10 damage a pop, 4 at a time at high speed is INSANE). Also, since he doesn't technically shoot, he can run circles around most other characters while his drones rip them and turrets to shreds. Because there are only 6 characters at the moment, we felt the need to give him the ability to be a good dps class as well. Once we have more characters out there, we might change his item build to push him more towards healing/support only.Quote: Also, Turrets also lock on to whatever is NEAREST. With the drones floating around they tend to change targets so often they can't really damage ANYTHING. Voltar can outheal the Turret's damage at base healing level (+7 HP) as long as he has 3-4 orbs distracting it. This is just one of the specializations of Voltar, with the drone shields, you can make him into a strong tank. So this was intentionally designed. It is very effective against turrets. Voltar is a very strong character used in the right way and in combination with other heroes, however he doesn't have a lot of health and he is easily killed. The main 'problem' is, is that the game is just up for a day and many players don't know all the heroes/abilities yet. What I personally have seen is that nobody targets the healer, because the are just trying to focus on the front heroes, the ones getting healed. Once you spot Voltar and you dash in, or throw some mines, grenades etc. he is an easy target. A group of three heroes can be intimidating, but if you focus on the healer in the group they spread out quickly, especially when you use aoe damage and making them spread out, allows you to break their strategy.
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QAUKeR---
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Post subject: Re: Balance Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 2:58 pm |
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Joined: Thu May 03, 2012 2:37 pm
Posts: 85
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Actually that strategy can be stoped easily with a 2 skill combo of froggy G, the splash attack will damage de drones and paralyze the heroes and then use a tornado to kill or force voltar to run, breaking all the strategy apart, and that is 1 against 2... add a lonestar dynamite pack or a clunk explosion to the ecuation when they are stunned and that´s it... this game is all about team play, is sad when you come into a game where everyone is doing their own stuff and the other team is playing "like a team" i specially hate the voltars that run past you and dont heal you because they are to busy using their pods...
for what i ve played already i think the game is well balanced, probably the only "cheap" thing i found is that if you start quickly with your team (a solid, human team) and head to the tower while the other team is making arrangements (in the selection screen) you can easily take 30% (or more) of one of the enemy towers even before they spawn because the bots are no match for a human team with voltar, this is particulary true in the stage where you can spawn flying enemies because they reach the enemy tower before the drones are spawned and take the damage for you while adding damage to the tower, its all about how quick you enter the stage
_-BTW sorry for the spelling, english is not my native language-_
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PSN id: QUAKeR---
Valar Morghulis - Valar dohaeris
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Azure Aubin
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Post subject: Re: Balance Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 4:52 pm |
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Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2012 12:19 am
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QAUKeR--- wrote: probably the only "cheap" thing i found is that if you start quickly with your team (a solid, human team) and head to the tower while the other team is making arrangements (in the selection screen) you can easily take 30% (or more) of one of the enemy towers even before they spawn because the bots are no match for a human team with voltar.
I see that as more of a player issue. The other team wouldn't be having that issue if they would spawn just as quick. I wont wait for the other team to finish, that's their problem. Early bird gets the worm, right..?
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PSN: AzureAubin
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My AWESOME accolades:
*First player to reach above 2000 rating*
*Ranked 1st on PSN May 2nd - 7th.*
*First player to reach 5th prestige on May 5th*
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Asakura
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Post subject: Re: Balance Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 5:22 pm |
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Joined: Thu May 03, 2012 5:25 am
Posts: 10
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The only real balance issues I felt existed yesterday was that bots were too strong. After more playing and learning the game I didn't feel like it was as much of an issue.
I'm mostly very pleased with the balance of the game and look forward to seeing how the game develops as we, the players, begin to understand it more.
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XBL: Asakura
Cool Runnings - Feel the Rhythm
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QAUKeR---
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Post subject: Re: Balance Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 5:43 pm |
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Joined: Thu May 03, 2012 2:37 pm
Posts: 85
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Azure Aubin wrote:
I see that as more of a player issue. The other team wouldn't be having that issue if they would spawn just as quick. I wont wait for the other team to finish, that's their problem. Early bird gets the worm, right..?
yeah but it is prejudicial to people that spend some time rearranging they strategies, while the ones with static strategies had a double advantage (because they know they characaters and also get to damage the other ones before they spawn)
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PSN id: QUAKeR---
Valar Morghulis - Valar dohaeris
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Wutang85
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Post subject: Re: Balance Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 5:45 pm |
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Joined: Thu May 03, 2012 5:34 pm
Posts: 64
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First off, I love that bots/ AI is actually a good competition. Some of the best AI in any game ever to be honest.
My best character is Lonestar, but I've been getting good with Froggy G a bit too.
From the 20 games I've played so far, the one thing I noticed was that Leon is the only player who constantly gives me trouble.
Maybe he is a natural counter to Lonestar or something but I find no matter who I use, he cuts through me like butter.
It seams as though every game I play, weather offline, or online, whoever is Leon always has the highest lvl earned in game.
You guys might want to think about nerfing his sword attack by tiny bit. Although introducing new characters might counter him better, I've yet to find a good Lonestar counter for Leon.
Also any team that has Voltor the healer, you must focus on him first otherwise they have an advantage. But when you do destroy him, they have a significant disadvantage.
I love the balancing in this game so far. Everything I've mentioned or that has been mentioned by others I have witnessed in game, but for the most part I've found ways around it or it didn't take away from the game play that much.
Great game btw, this really gives me hope in future gaming. I was getting a bit bored with games. Played an 6 hour gaming session yesterday for the first time in like a year or 2.
Once again, any changed needed are minimal, great game, thanks for creating it and allowing us to play it.
Peace
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Asakura
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Post subject: Re: Balance Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 5:54 pm |
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Joined: Thu May 03, 2012 5:25 am
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QAUKeR--- wrote: Azure Aubin wrote:
I see that as more of a player issue. The other team wouldn't be having that issue if they would spawn just as quick. I wont wait for the other team to finish, that's their problem. Early bird gets the worm, right..?
yeah but it is prejudicial to people that spend some time rearranging they strategies, while the ones with static strategies had a double advantage (because they know they characaters and also get to damage the other ones before they spawn) Realistically the only solution I see making sense is blocking teams in to their base (just before the generator thing, blanking on the name right now) until the creep/minion wave spawns. I'd actually like to see this because it doesn't penalize teams for rearranging their pre-drop skills and buying their first power ups.
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XBL: Asakura
Cool Runnings - Feel the Rhythm
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QAUKeR---
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Post subject: Re: Balance Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 6:20 pm |
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Joined: Thu May 03, 2012 2:37 pm
Posts: 85
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Asakura wrote: The only real balance issues I felt existed yesterday was that bots were too strong. After more playing and learning the game I didn't feel like it was as much of an issue.
I'm mostly very pleased with the balance of the game and look forward to seeing how the game develops as we, the players, begin to understand it more. i played A LOT yesterday (like 100+ games) and i can guarantee you that bots are dumb and really easy to kill whe you get used to them xD the clunk bot tends to get stuck if you shoot it while jumping and explode hiting nothing, etc... some times i have seen him jumpin then going down, jumping then going down... its imo the worst AI in the game At the beginning of the map if you get the lonestar bot between you turret and yourself he will try to past trough you shooting, if you think you can beat him stay there, he almost never tries to jump trough you, just walk to his death xD i have never seen a voltar bot now that i think of it :/ the leon bot tends to runs away when his hp is below something like 20% even if he can kill you in one more blow if you follow him and shoot at him he wont come back to finish you, luck with that though he is fast as hell xD in general when a voltar is present they always tend to attack him, this is a good strategy but if you know that will happen you can just start with a little more hp and act as tank while your team easily kills the bots, especially leon that has to come close to voltar in order to damage him the real advantage of bots in contrast to humans is that they know exactly when to start running for their lives, is a lot easier to finish off a human because they tend to do a "last stand" xD one thing that should be added in the future is that bots use teleport, is really ridiculous seeing them walk half the map back to the base... when they could just teleport if no enemy is arround
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PSN id: QUAKeR---
Valar Morghulis - Valar dohaeris
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david12596
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Post subject: Re: Balance Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 6:24 pm |
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Joined: Mon Jun 08, 2009 2:01 am
Posts: 353
Location: New Jersey, USA
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Wutang85 wrote: From the 20 games I've played so far, the one thing I noticed was that Leon is the only player who constantly gives me trouble.
Maybe he is a natural counter to Lonestar or something but I find no matter who I use, he cuts through me like butter.
It seams as though every game I play, weather offline, or online, whoever is Leon always has the highest lvl earned in game.
You guys might want to think about nerfing his sword attack by tiny bit. Although introducing new characters might counter him better, I've yet to find a good Lonestar counter for Leon.
Leon seems to be very strong agaisnt Lonestar and Yuri. My suggestion is try to use the bull when he tries to attack you and/or use a dynamite with the blinding effect. I usually can beat him if I play a zoning game against him. Another thing is you should make sure to upgrade your auto attack damage. It really helps.
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