I wouldn't mind really if you put "These are my favorite heroes" since that is what this list is, but the fact that you put "tier list" is driving me bonkers (not to mention "voltair" and "chomp" ). All you have given are anecdotes of where you have complete jungle control and the enemy team does nothing to stop you. Please, if you want to contribute to a balance thread, the conditions in which you test heroes must also be balanced. Please think!



I agree with damaging Leon to break stealth. He goes invisible and I attack in the direction he last ran in, BAM I nail him and damage pops up... but he is still invisible. I feel it only makes sense for it to break stealth to reward players that manage to find him, as well as give some incentive for cloaked Leon's to be more tactful (Increasing skill required).

I think it is way to soon to do a tier list. On the topic of balance I can agree, Leon needs a little "notice I said little Leon players" nerf. I would say either add a duration he can be stealth (which is your best bet) or make it so when he gets attack it breaks stealth. If both of this where done, it maybe too much of a nerf, but one of the two would be a good start.

So after my second day of play, I would love to say this game doesn't feel balanced but nope, it really does. Everyone has a dangerous tool that I respect, so it's hard to pick one guy out and say he's OP. Leon is very good, but if he ever has to run away and he used his cloak already, he's pretty toast. He will also get worse once more high-level Yuri's learn to scout with an upgraded-range slow laser to expose him. He's very good, but his mobility is actually rather lacking, with no solid jump or getaway mechanic other than run speed. Froggy pretty much owns him from my experience, since one Splash Dash or whatever it's called can pretty much lead to a kill.

Clunk is certainly good, but he's not overpowered by any means. Sure, at higher levels, a single hit leads to a KO "combo" on most of the cast. However, he's slow, clunky, and makes a big target, so he can't effectively bring down turrets without Voltar healing him. Just be smart and stay away from him, and he's pretty harmless.

Froggy is definitely good, but he's also definitely fragile. He will probably be one of the best moving forward due to the fact that his Splash Dash thingy can get him out of any situation, and Tornado does a similarly good job. Yuri should destroy him (in theory, this hasn't come up) because he can keep his space while raining lasers and mines.

Lonestar is good, but has average mobility at best and is rather lacking in the special move department. He can destroy turrets in a flash though, using his bull as a shield when the drones aren't covering him yet. He is also pretty free to Leon and Froggy, because he doesnt have the speed to get away and the bull doesn't always hit fully at point blank.

Voltar can really control the match with DPS or healing supremacy, which honestly worries me a bit. He is not without counter though, because as always, Leon counters everyone who can't out-damage him at close range. Since Voltar can't run (thank you, Backstab), he pretty much just dies if he can't duck behind a turret.

Yuri is also very good, but very vulnerable to Leon since his melee cancels Yuri's flight. Yuri also has a trick up his sleeve, however; he can use the slow-enabled laser to "scout" for stealth Leons by spinning it in a circle when he is suspicious. Once he gets his bouncing mines up and running too, Leon is no longer even a threat. Froggy, on the other hand...

You get my point. Every character has a few bright spots and a few not-so-bright spots, and it's really hard to call how this will end up based on a few days. I wouldn't be surprised if Voltar/Clunk/(Leon or Froggy) ends up being the go-to team. It just makes too much sense to not work.

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Oh and another thing, turrets should be able to target Leon while he is stealthed; true sight on turrets is a common convention in MOBA games. It's a small nerf, but this coupled with damage breaking his stealth, and halved clone damage to turrets may make people feel better about him (this would all need to be thoroughly tested first of course).

Disagree. I'm a Leon player and do feel he's a tad overpowered, but not massively so. He has a very poor early game especially if you spec. stealth, as a long-time LoL and DotA player I can honestly say stealth Leon is one of the weakest early game heroes out of any MOBA game that I've played to date.

Let me address your suggestions here. You say that turrets should track Leon whilst he is cloaked and that damage should also break his stealth? Talk about bringing out the nerf bat early in the game! The game has been out two days and many people are only just unlocking Yuri and getting to grips with him so it goes without saying that as of right now it's impossible to say exactly what heroes are overpowered and to what extent.

Leon is available from the off, meaning players have had a good while longer to suss out FotM builds for him and the like. What's more, you make two suggestions there that would drastically alter Leon's playstyle and, in my humble opinion, make him considerably weaker than he needs to be. I'd say that if anything it should be either/or of your suggestions tbh, not both.

Let's look a little more in-depth at Leon as a stealth build here (which is how I spec. him). In your earlier post you recommend:
The problem I have with this is you don't so much 'find' Leon as randomly spam attack in multiple directions after he cloaks. So okay, I'm actually for damage dropping Leon's stealth but not as well as turrets tracking him whilst he is cloaked, again I think it should be either/or.

Scenario - Leon jumps into a scrap near a turret to help a team mate out of a jam, he starts taking a ton of damage before cloaking to get out. Now, if both of your suggestions were implemented, the turret would visibly track Leon, giving away his location and thus allowing the opposing team players to attack, dropping his stealth and ultimately killing him.

Upgrading Leon's stealth comes at a cost, you're putting other useful abilities on the backburner. For example, without sharing my exact build, I spec. stealth and sacrifice health upgrades until late game instead opting for stealth early game and mid-game the ability which gives a damage bonus to slashing enemies from behind. My Leon is terribly weak in-terms of health early and mid-game, only starting to buff up a bit towards late game.

That is a choice I make, I choose to spec. stealth early on and thus I have to be extremely careful when entering a fray. Clunks self-destruct can pretty much one hit me for most of a game and coming up against other well played Leon's is a big risk factor due to their 'tongue' ability, enabling them to pull me into turrets, bots or other heroes and don't even get me started on how risky Voltar, Yuri or Froggy G can be to a stealth spec'd Leon if you underestimate them...

The only hero I feel I don't have to be wary of when playing stealth Leon is Lonestar as I pretty much steamroll him any time I come up against him in fairness but I put this down to the fact that a lot of Lonestar's on the field are newbies who've yet to unlock other heroes, I have seen the occasional well played Lonestar but it's rarer than the other heroes.

I'm all for Leon receiving some adjustments. If I'm honest I think most of the heroes could do with the odd tweak but both of your main suggestions would be pretty big game changers for Leon, thus I don't think implementing both would be fair or practical on Leon players but, again, that's just my opinion.

I do think Leon deserves a short window where damage does not reveal him, so he can stealth and disengage and/or simply use it for a quick hop-over+damage boost in a brawl. 3 seconds was my initial recommendation.

However, I have no problem with a system where people spam attacks in all directions out of paranoia that Leon might be near, and I think Leon players shouldn't either. That might increase his overall effectiveness on a team while removing some of his "cheapness"... if people feel like they have to spam attacks in all directions, they will waste time moving forwards (call it a -10% debuff on overall enemy speed...), and Yuri's star will rise due to his ability to quickly spray in all directions. All sounds good to me.

I acknowledge the "it's too early to really understand balance" arguments, but I feel like if you told a LoL player about a character with instant stealth that had infinite duration, only broken on attack and otherwise completely undetectable, full movement speed, decoy dropping (which even without upgrades still slows minions in a lane), and was upgradable to damage increasing and health regenerating, they would laugh in your face, and then, finding out you were serious, would ask where to sign up.

I think stealth is the tricky aspect to balance in any game, period. Its a great mechanic, but without a doubt, if I were to die to Clunk's Explode or a quick backstab to Leon, I would rage much harder to Leon. I think it is way to early to say, "Leon is too OP/unbalanced", as nobody I've played against knew how to stop him yet.

The key word there was yet, as when I play against my bro in a private match, I found exactly how to shut him down with at least 3 other Awesomenauts. The other two being Voltar and Yuri. I'm bad at Yuri :/

I will be uploading Practice gameplay over the weekend, maybe that will give the developers a better idea of what I'm seeing in my games, how to stop it, and why it should/shouldn't be changed.

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perhaps something like an extra damage % while on stealth or a % speed movement reduction (so with the speed pasive it gets normal speed)

i actually found it really weird that the towers didnt detect leon at first, but i get used to it and already found it obious because he cant attack the towers without being exposed so its no big deal

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I don't think Leon is 'too good' per say, but I do think his stealth needs to be more limited. It has too much potential for abuse, it could be a good get away move or sneaking by move, but having it permanent is just a bit much imho.

I have kind of an odd question, I'm new to mobo games in general, but my understanding is that team work is the basis for victory in these type of games right? I would maybe suggesting buffing turrets to encourage that more? I feel if a good duo can hold the trio on the other team back long enough and occupied, a good lonestar, clunk, or voltar can easily go to the other turret and destroy it. Seems to be the anti-thesis of teamwork in that regard.