Thanks for the reply to this. It doesn't need to go away, or be nerfed across the board, it just needs to be nerfed against turrets and possibly the core. I personally think it's fine how it is against players, it definitely makes me back off for the duration when I see I'm not damaging him, the issue is just against turrets. They don't dish out enough damage to really break his shield in a timely manner, and if they do, he has his dash ability to just lolescape anyway (which he also seems to be invincible during, as someone else pointed out. I had forgotten about that, and it doesn't really seem right to have that either. I've watched him dash through 4 mines, a bull, 2 players and a handful of creeps before, and pop out at full health).

I think a good fix would be to make it so if he's under the shield effect from the whirlwind, the whirlwind should not deal damage to just turrets, still damaging players is fine. If the shield is broken and he's still whirlwinding, or they haven't purchased that upgrade, by all means let it damage turrets. Since the turrets have no means of regenerating health, it's just simply overpowered to let someone have a free pass at dishing out damage to them with no repercussions. Either that, or let turrets bypass the shield effect and damage him through it.



The problem is you can't stop him from causing damage with how some of the players use it. The dash with its stun effect allows him a free escape to just run away until cooldowns are finished, and come dropping in from above to whirlwind again, and dash back out before any threat is posed to him.

There are plenty of viable means to stop the other characters from damaging the turrets in the ways that they do, but this has really no solution. You can scare or chase them all off, but Froggy G being used this way only has to run away because of cooldowns and not because he has to go heal. No character should be able to aggress and push through an entire lane all the way to the core without their creeps and while taking no damage in the process.

As one of my friends said while we watched someone do this: If this becomes the way to play the game, I'm not going to be playing it much longer.

There seems to be debate on Froggy G.

Just to state, Lvl1 with only 4 abillities unlocked he is pretty balanced. He is a strong contender, but by no means is he overpowered, his late game might shine, but you know theres really nothing too insane since leon's really strong builds are within his first 4 abillities.

But Froggy G gets INSANE is when you have everything unlocked, He gets cooldown, cooldown, and stun for splash dance (3 second cooldown, stun, gap closer, Escape) he gets Shield, Speed boast, Duration for tornado (invincible, good damage, Extreme escape. While have damage+twin+speed upgrade for blaster. And Health+health+money tree for utility.

We end up having the most escape prone, Tanky, Damage dealing, Aoe stun, Invicibility character in the WORLD(not rlly). You can splash dance, Shoot, Tornado, Splash dance, It's cray. 3 second cooldown on splash dance is insane. He 100% shuts down clunk, Clunk can't do anything. He beats any character 1v1, he can blow up voltar's drones, he respawns them, then blows them up again. He might not push base as absurdly hard as leon, but he can't be punished for taking a tower or base, he has range+double escape.

Things you should look into Froggy G
-Cooldown reduction only costing 110(1/2) + 180(1/1)=400 Solar for 3 second cooldown + 150 (1/2) Stun duration increase = 700 Solar to max Splash Dash
-No reason to be invincible during Splash dash imo
-Double health stacking due to no need to boots via double movement skills
-Tornado's "shield" absorbs entirely too much damage, I absorb clunks explosion all day. Should absorb like 40-50 damage MAX.
-Tornado speed upgrade making it insanely fast.
-Also factor in that splash dash allows you to get to areas insanely faster and smoother which speeds up his jungling and makes his escape more insane.

I find it hard to believe we're discussing nerfing froggy G. He's far weaker than Leon for instance against turrets or the core. Leon can triple froggy Gs whirlwind damage and with his health steal he can be effectively invulnerable when doing so too.

Froggy G is balanced, actually one of the weaker characters. His 'gun' is pathetic. It doesn't go any further than the hitbox on Leons slash, so why is it a gun? furthermore it does fastly less damage than Leons slash.

Also he can't beat anyone 1 vs 1. Leon can silence him inbetween stuns and regen health from the silence / slashes. Froggy dies before the silence wears off in most cases, and if he doesn't the only sensible option for him is to dash away from Leon.

He can kill lonestar and clunk 1 vs 1. But clunk is designed to be a tank. As in, clunk actually gets killed by anyone 1 vs 1. Lonestar, Froggy, Leon. Clunk will get his * handed to him by their superior mobility / range every time. A tank is ineffective without support.

While they start out kind of weak, Both Froggy G and Leon are a bit overpowered later in the game.

Not by a lot , but enough to notice.

Froggy G is just becoming so annoying to play against because he just dashes in , tornado, dashes out and shoots that annoying fast water shotgun thing. lol


Those are the only two I actually have a problem killing. And when they are on the same team it's lead to my 3 rage quits.

All I'm seeing are a bunch of Leon complaints. I don't really have a problem with Leon myself but the same can't be said for voltar. IMO he us completely over powered. I know this was brought up earlier I just think it's not getting enough attention. His damage is incredibly high for a "healer", he can attack you with high amounts of damage w/o even facing you, turrets are basically useless against him w/ Droids because the turrets cycle up and down trying to hit voltars personal turrets, and he levels up the fastest because he rakes in the most money. Me and my friends had to ban him from private matches because he is too unfair. While playing public we only lost once w/ him on our team out of 15 or so matches to another voltar. I just think he shouldn't have an extreme ammount of attack power especially since he doesn't even have to aim at you himself.

Voltar definantly needs a nerf, IMO the best way to deal with it is just make the turrets not target his drones anymore, the AI bugs out targeting them and lets him get away with murder, also perhaps nerf drone damage a tad bit it seems like abit much considering a good voltar will level up nearly 2x as fast as everyone else.
as for the leon complaints, i honestly dont think he's nearly as bad as everyone thinks he is, the only thing i would suggest for him is nerfing tounge abit, the range is to easy to get early for how long it is and allows u to draw people into turrets for early rape, raise the cost of range upgrades to like 230+ apiece to delay him from playing that early and i think he's balanced, the assasin build "stealth damage" and the clone tower damage isnt as bad as its made out to be and will be severly punished by a good team, its when u get noobs outta position at 1/4 life that he prospers but in a good match that shouldn't really be happening.

Oh and as for froggy G, why the crap is he invulnerable on splash dash anyways? seems like a bad idea and makes him a little bit to versatile IMO, take that away and i think he's ok. Yuri feels odd IMO his moves dont synergize very well at all it seems and his bubble is junk until its leveled up because of the high startup time. Probably buff the bubble seriously lessening the initial startup time of it, and make his basic attack abit more versatile restore its turret damage to normal, in a decent match a yuri isnt going to have a chance to sit there and pick off towers all day long. also might want to consider allowing him to drop mines while attack with his laser, i think that it would seriously improve his game and skill synergy, IE slow pull laser/mines. the fact that its one or the other kinda really limits him. clunk seems fine atm only thing is explosion seems to hit outside of bubble animation. lonestar's bull doesnt push away alot of the time at very close range, im not sure if this is intentional or accidental but its abit annoying and can get him killed, i also might up CD on bull a tad since being able to use it to completely deny a lane since he can spam it faster then creeps approach for push feels abit OP. trade those off and he should be fine, bull pushes back at point blank in exchange for raising CD so he cant completely shut down a lane. those are my only real complaints.

As others say everyone's end-game is overpowered, they're all pretty balanced. Froggy G might have the capacity to survive and hit and run, but because of this he does a pretty poor job finishing people off. His gun is also weak as hell.

I kill froggy G all the time with Yuri. Yuri has 80 damage mines if you have the correct skills. Froggy G frequently dashes, the end of his dash will often place him into mines.

The reason 'leon and froggy g' feel like they have op end-game is because these are the main dps characters. Clunk has equally powerful end-game, does Lonestar who can OHK you with one ability.

You guys say that Voltar's good at pushing turrets because he can heal droids and his drones can divert the turret, so nerf him? Why are you letting him kill the turret? If you attack he will run. He can't pop out of nowhere and burst kill you from full life. He can't stealth, stun, or burst. If his drones are hitting you, why aren't you avoiding it? Because you want the kill? Do you have to kill? So you want the Voltar to stand there for you to kill? A Yuri can fly up and bomb you from sky where you can't hit. I don't think taking away his pushing ability just because another can't is a way to balance the game. He can't even do it without bots, so there it is again, why are you letting him kill the turret? If you died, that's you own fault.

Froggy G has nothing but his skills with a gun:skill kill ratio of like 1:50 unless you commit to a gun build and it's probably not that good compared to skill build. Tornado shield can't even take that much damage which leaves him spinning and not be able to use splash to run. Plus, spinning on a turret is probably the easiest way to kill him because he's stationary. The damage on the turrets is weakened too (half damage i think).

These statements sound like there's no one defending or it's 1v1. This is a team game so you can't just balance something just because a character is better at something than another. You have teammates from a reason, so use them. Can't defend a turret alone? Get someone else there to help you. Even if you can't directly talk to them, you have commands. If they don't have to defend a dying turret or even help you, doesn't that mean an incompetent player? If you have good players defending on a turret against a Voltar and/or Froggy G, you won't think either is that broken.

Might sound a little aggressive but I don't see any huge unbalances in the game like being overpowered. I'm sure the best players can outplay any other character. It just so happens that people like Leon because he's a starter, simple to learn (not master), and is everyone's favorite "I like to stealth and kill" character and that's why they fill the leader board. I don't think he's overpowered, he's good at killing but that doesn't necessarily win you the game. I've had games where we pushed after feeding and vice-versa. Leons can't run into a group of good players slashing and hope to one-man them.