I actually think removed homing is a buff in some ways for Clunk.

_________________
I play Froggy, and quote myself. Egotistical? Maybe...

But this removes his ability to free damage turrets, this removes his ability to hit vinni and spike and yuri so easily....

Phew... time to do the longest quote of my life!
Here we go!


Like these changes, overall ++ from me (was a bit worried about PPL but I'll get into that later).


Not sure on the base stun duration change, we'll see, good on all other upgrades with a bit of a "huh?" on MW:NE since I'm not sure if it retains the no movespeed loss effect.


YES on dynamite, YEEEEES! Especially the incendiary, not sure if they're worth it still but far better now.
Bull Charger I'm not sure needed that nerf but we'll see, still don't quite think Viking Helmet is worth it though, the damage and cost buffs are nice but wont make a big enough difference I feel.


I'm curious about the Magnet Piercing and Steel False Teeth changes, not quite sure about the numerical values they gave before so have a hard time saying much on them.
Tongue Stretcher will only be all the more early buy for ez fast kills now though

Stealth changes are great, Electrifier changes worry me a bit but we'll see and crit and SPM changes are LOVE!


Power Converter? Which one's that again? Ehh, I'll see.
Explode changes are nice, Grease Snail buff is good since it really makes it tough to get out of range but not impossible (also makes it a slight nerf to snare since you need it less).
Missile changes I... hmm... I really don't quite know. The reduced range will make Clunk a lot more harassable depending on how much it was reduced, same for homing, but at least he won't be going cowdung on turret hit ranges and blindspots anymore.
Not sure he needed the turret damage reduction though.
His health change is lovely, can actually kill him early game without being 3!


Drones changes are, interesting... not quite sure what the collision will do.
Other changes are good, base heal will have more variety while healbot won't be "spam to gain 10 solar/sec".


Overcharged Metabolism is CD reduction, right? If so, good variety change here.
Think the weed changes might be too harsh but I like the flex neck change, again, with all the others too this might be too rough.
Bite changes are curious and the weedling health from pills makes them more linear again, like that bit, but still not sure if they got hit too hard.


Not really sure why this was changed and don't have much of an opinion on it, we'll see what happens.


Love the Throw changes, might make Skølldir not feel "wtf hax hitboxes!" on those, maybe we'll even see Axethrowing used!
Earthquake changes are curious but Small Volcano will probably end up being fairly staple now, considering the massive height buff!
EMF might be used again, but RNG is never good imho.
Cost nerfs on Flaming Fists and RDC are nice, now more silly fast Skølldirs acting as a bigger zoning threat than Clunk.


Looks like mostly Niko suggested changes here, can't say much except that a 100% support Yuri still feels cowdung early game with rushing bubble slow (and Froggy rushing Cubes... lovely stun for until base nado kills you <.<) but I imagine it's all good, at least bomber Yuri will be more viable for early game and not a drag down.
Not a fan of the increased slow on base bubble but I guess he needed it or something? Haven't seen a lot and can't play him worth dung so yeah.
Laser changes might make him a bit scarier in raw damage but he still suffers from Leon-deceaseness disease
Baby Yeti is always going to be taken now, no doubt in my mind.


The T-800 Dome changes were needed really, the HC bomb one I'm curious about but not sure I like, imagine it'll be too easy to drop it, do 50ish damage to someone at the max range of Rae blaster and run off behind the Rift.
Base Snipe damage buff? I hate you <.< I really, really don't like that because it's going to be the biggest pain in the a** to fight Raelynns now. The Iron Riffle change is actually a great idea, no more "oh hai, wasted CD and got smashed!", just getting smashed with a huge return fire.
Base Snipe range increase was also needed, she might be able to hit things properly without upgrading range now!


No clue what happened to the nuke, trap changes are good I feel.
Turret mode will be better as it won't be massively punished every single time now, Deploy Pads have a clearer and 'more useful' use with Force Fields being better too, likely not taken any more than before though.
I guess Derpl needed the cat changes too, scratchy scratchy


Not sure I like the price on BFoG still, it's still really expensive and it's use is odd, won't be personally using it but the price per price is at least roughly the same as Chrome File.
Smokescreen duration is a YES! Can't wait to see the changes to Rubber Mask and Withered President Mask either, need some numbers to deal with that
Loanshark might actually be used now! Hope it's fixed and won't give 20 hp instead of the 50 it should
Godfish change is nice too, don't personally use it though and it's even more awkward than BFoG so yeah... doubt it'll do much of a difference.


Remember when I mentioned the PPL nerf earlier and said I was worried? Vinnie was why, but hey, 15 free base health! No worries, all good!



TLDR
Few worries in some of the changes.
Some "not sure" moments.
A couple of "can't talk because of no numbers" that I'm interested in.
Mostly just great all around! Get me that patch Ronimo... GIVE IT!!!

_________________
Mains: Vinnie and Lonestar
Sidekick: Pretty much everyone else

Comments mixed in with suggestions.

Lonestar
Is it possible for Booming Bullets to explode once the bullet reaches the max range? That'd make them worth at least 200 Solar.

Another suggestion would be to change Viking Helmet's damage to a DoT similar to Skolldir's earthquake. That way the damage is more reliable.

Also Lonestar needs either a slight Health or Movement Speed increase.

Everything else is good.

Leon
Electrifier will be too potent with a 2s duration. How about setting it to just two stages of 0.7?
According to others, the change on Magnet Piercing would actually be a nerf. I'm against this because then Leon has to either go for slow solar gain, or to remain laughably frail for the entire game. Leave it alone.
I'm indifferent to the rest of the changes.

Clunk
A big no to all of Clunk's missile changes. Especially removing their innate homing; It's suicide unless you increase their base traveling speed to the level that Free Flight Fins ends you up at.

Gnaw
Bag of Seeds will become near-mandatory if you reduce Gnaw's base carry-count. How about if Bag of Seeds increased the number of Weedlings that Gnaw could have on the field?
The threshold for Flex Neck should also be 50-60%, otherwise it's all to easy to render Weedlings severely weakened, even if you only graze them.

Skolldir
If you're gonna reduce the Stun on Throw, at least make Oily Bronze give a minor (say; 30%) movement speed increase too. So Skolldir can catch his thrown target.
The throw cooldown increase is unnecessary, just increase Crankin' Dumbell's CD reduction to 1.5 per level.

Also with those Stun and Range price increases on Bash, Skolldir's early-game will be really bad. Making him cost 625 Solar before he can even do anything worthy of note, or 375 if you really think you can perform effectively without Oily Bronze; which I doubt.

Derpl
All the changes seem pretty good.
Derpl might finally be viable.

Voltar
All good.

Coco
One change. It's a good one too.

Froggy
Hammer Pants no longer massively preferable over straight damage? Good.
Can't Touch This now stands a chance against RBAY? Good.

That Ninja Worms change looks interesting as well...

Vinnie & Spike
I can't really comment on a lot of things, because I don't fight a lot of Vinnies and I don't play him myself.

Raelynn
Gryc Lubricator should increase the range by +5 if the base damage is gonna be upped that much. Because Raelynn can just buy one stage of the upgrade and become too strong a defensive-pusher (counter-pusher?).

General
I'd leave the silence-thingies at x2, otherwise Leon will be unbeatable in 1v1s (5.6s of Silence, really!?).
Also, stacking Paid and Free Pills will become mandatory again if it's just two stages of +25hp.



Also, how many times do you plan to have the Creeps level up?

_________________
No upgrades. Froggy G only. Final Desti- Ribbit IV.
Every post I make is "in the moment", so they may or may not conflict with previous statements.

That would be retarded

_________________
I play Froggy, and quote myself. Egotistical? Maybe...

This patch is really good. I can't really see something I'd complain much about here. In fact, I'd say it's a while ago we had such a good patch(the previous 2 patches were kinda... meh).

Nice balance changes here and there, and you even tried to make Derpl useful for once! Me playing much Rae, I also appreciate that I don't need to double-stack damage anymore as well as getting some free height and duration for the timerift again.
And you removed Leon's crits and first strike on turrets? Sweet. He's probably still melting them like ice in the sun, but at least he's not going to be completely imba against them now.

You can really tell by this patch they read through a good portion of the forum, so many good community suggestions have been implented.

_________________
Blinky is the definition of a forced meme... they shall add him anyways.

Flynn, sinister overlord of despicable evilness and LOATHER OF ALL WHAT'S FRIENDSHIP AND TEAMWORK!

x4 might be a bit much. x2 is a much more reasonable point. You guys obviously know how long even 2 seconds of any debuff is in this game, and Leon's silence would be a little strong at 4 seconds.Sweet, this would certainly break turtles very quickly. However, I wonder what the implications for mid game are... Indirect buff to healing nauts as well, which is nice.They were a bit tough to deal with before, this is a good way to make them feel even throughout a fight: I did like the deterrent factor they had though. I hope they are still a threat for the other team. Slightly reduces the effectiveness of Double pills. These are nice changes and won't break the Naut. It's not a huge price increase, and the stun is still just as powerful: just Cubes aren't AS necessary.Certainly makes these upgrades a lot more attractive.Price standardization. Nice.Making the splash upgrades attractive again, especially for new players.Not a big deal, the 10 solar is just another second or two of farming.This is now a very attractive upgrade. Considering Froggy's gun's base range, this change is really good. Piercing is actually worth its price.Whoa. Cool ideas incoming...Oh not this again.180 price might have been a bit high, but 160 is a bit low it seems. 170 is a moderate choice.Seeing as how powerful this upgrade was for pushing, this might have been necessaryConsidering the power of the upgrade under most circumstances, this is a good idea. I like the new price.Reward +. Cool.I'm not a fan of all of these changes at once. This is a massive buff to an upgrade that saw a really strong buff not too long ago. Increase the speed OR reduce the cost, but both at the same time might cause Console level power of missiles that I'm not sure are a good idea to go back to. sure, why not? honestly not the most ridiculous upgrade, and I always thought it should cost less. Let's see what happens.Solid hp steal insteal of %. I like it under most circumstances, but the full HP leon build SimbL popularized will take a huge hit off of this.AFAIC this is a buff. Combining damage with Solar increases was a funny thing to do, but the static 3 solar per hit is much better for most builds.Well, this is fair considering the nerf it got.This will make it a lot more confusing to know which is which. I approve.Annoying upgrade, but it did need a cost reduction.I don't know what to think: I never used electrifier much.I might start using electrifierIt'll be interesting to see what happens from this: I still foresee me using a lot of crit, simply for player burst.Sure, keeps the costs in line with Pills a bit more, while respecting the fact that it's not *permanent*. So long as this gets rid of the negative effect of reducing damage for double HP or w.e, a HoT would be cool.I still foresee this upgrade being slightly rare...... though this might change my mind. I'm not sure if the 8 dmg nerf was really needed for explodeThank you. This is a great idea.Somebody doesn't like outranging turrets at level 1... or pushing. That last nerf is, IMO, unecessary if the others go through. His DPS is already low against turrets.Aaaand we'll have to see. Probably needed it.THANK YOU HOLY CRAP.A nice buff. Explode builds got a good boost.Helpful, but we'll see if it beats out other upgrades.Twisted nightmares just became a decent upgrade. For that price, the heal seems balanced... but we'll, again, have to see in practice.And now he's on par with Yuri. Ha!Yeah, that slow was a little strong... but +40 solar at max upgrades? again, a moderate route of 140 solar would be prudent.Solid, gives the upgrade a good reason for existing.Overall, make fertilizer unecessary and allows builds to focus on more damage.Neat! We'll have to see how this works in practice, but I think this is a significant nerf in the long run: a single poke will put these out of commission for a few seconds.Probably warranted.Probably warranted, but with the flex neck nerf a more moderate increase to solar cost would have been prudent. 150 or 160 instead.Solid. Maybe we should increase the capacity of bag of seeds again to compensate?I like buffs. This emphasizes Gnaw's hit and Run attack strategy I'm fond of, so I approve.And there's our problem solved. Gnaw might be skillful again.Nice, but doesn't really change builds that much. Just stops really random CoCo balls from flying all over the place.Oh crap. I'll leave this to Bear to deal with.Probably a good idea. I like that the upgrade is now important and that timing throw is even more skill oriented than before.I'm a little confused as to the effect of this.Sweet?Puts it in line with other damage upgrades.That's better.Skolldir is my new favourite. Artillery mode, engage!Good, I like that it has more stopping power.This... will be interesting to see. If you can no longer avoid it, then it's a bit of an issue.Kinda needed, but still not super attractive. Might be fun to try with the snare.That reflects the power of the upgrade a bit better.Yay for standard amounts of damage! Nice to have considering the power of the upgrade, what with being a bit weaker than others and all.Nice to see...Also nice to see... but considering how solar starved Skoll usually is, this will force players to play differently. This will certainly encourage other builds, but I honestly thought mines were more or less fine. The total nerf to damage output might have been too much.Good, this certainly makes the upgrade a bit less silly for its cost.Down with that. A lot harder to dodge, but still doable I'm guessing...Yay for more usefulness at base! Overall buff to slow bubble. Should be interesting, but I foresee a lot of rage against the power of the slow...Considering the power of the upgrades, this was a nice change.Okay, this is nice. Makes damage upgrades a bit more powerfulSame as before.Reduction in cost plox, they just got nerfed and I thought they were fine before: now with the base atk speed increase, these could use a price change with this effectiveness change.Not sure if needed, but we'll see.It was a strong upgrade, not sure if it needed a price change: if it did, maybe a slightly less generous reductionAnd we're back in business! This is good.BOOYA! This oughta be fun :3 Encourages non- attack speed builds to appearSolid, this was needed...And that makes my new build viable. I'm totally cool with this, though it might not have been necessary.HUGE buff to base snipe. Not sure how I feel about this, but we'll see if Snipe requires a charge time nerf or not later.Yay for an interesting upgrade! Now reduce the price a tad, since 260 for CC immunity seems a bit too much.GOod, this upgrade needed the love... although... DMG, CD Reduc, and Range will be the new base build for Rae Rae.Solid, the upgrade was lacking before.Not a big buff, but coupled with the base dmg increase I do see flashy glasses making a come back.Aww, my offscreen kills will happens slightly less often. TO be honest though, the range it had before was SILLY.That seems better.And the detterrence factor seems to be slowly increasingGood, this was needed.Was this needed?That's a pretty drastic price change... Keeping it in line with the other upgrade, solid.Sweet, but what about deployment pads?Sweet? There might need to be some price changes...Brim Forcefield is only 10 solar cheaper than the 3/3 rank shield. Not sure if worth price over earlier gains.That helps reduce the price a bit, which is nice. I still think it oughta be in line damage wise with the Bat Cat suit.Because I totally use this upgrade.Nice, but I'm still not going to buy it normally.This is nice too, but I'll have to see if this is a bit much or not for myself to decide whether I think it's good or not.Making this available for lower level players is massive, and was absolutely essential. Thank you.Now THIS oughta be interesting!! Solar Krab Burgers now have a use!Solid! I like it a lot :3Needed.Whoo hoo? Can't say I'm super excited, but it does make it a lot more reliable so I'm all for it.

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- Slow Wolf Ronimo Code of Conduct
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Am I the only one who thinks that on paper raelynn spells out OP here?
I mean look at those hard buffs... ofc its hard to judge how it would feel ingame, but just from reading it it looks that way to me.

Clunk changes, I agree with the medical pump change, it was kind of too cost effective before,

power converter... I dont quite get what this even means... you get +2 hp per second for 7 seconds? that sounds ... utterly useless?

Container change, I dunno why you would want to make it even cheaper, to me its allready a pretty damn good upgrade as it were, but okay?

Less max damage on thermo cleaner, don't really know why this is necessary? Will this also have some effect to the self damage it gives you? (as in will you still get +10 self damage for +16 dmg?) because it seems kinda weird to me... can't really comment, hard to judge how it would affect the game.

Grease Snail - good work, this update was pretty overpriced for what it gave (which is why I stopped using it mostly).

Reduced range, well doesnt really say anything since its not telling how much range is being reduced, keep in mind that rockets fly incredibly slow, their range was their good point.

Base homing can be taken, makes missiles again worse, but I guess now its a conscious choice weather you want homing or not.

The missile damage is good, never got why clunk is so good vs towers, not really his role.

The HP nerf... no comment, I don't know how -20 HP would really apply ingame.

Overall I see clunk being nerf'd mostly vs towers.

About Skolldir... something had to be done, not sure if this is the right way, but its good that something is being done. Also incredibly hard to judge just from text.

Derpl:
Aimable Nuke - not sure what this means, but if it means that you can fire the nuke in the direction you are pointing and then it still homes, this is pretty good, just needs the short duration in which it doesnt lock on that I suggested somewhere else, otherwise nuke will still immediately lock onto creeps in front of derpl, making the whole aiming pointless.

Other changes I can't really comment on, things get cheaper mostly, not sure how it would play out in a match.

Turretmode:
Base cooldown being less... well it makes him stronger, more mobile in a way, not sure if thats good or bad.
Deployment Pads - Knockback is okay but its again quite hard to imagine the implications that would have in a game.

Force field cost reduce - One rank of forcefield is still utterly pointless, even if it only costs 100 solar, I still dont understand why the brim force field doesnt get ditched and the normal force field gives 10% per upgrade with a max of 3 upgrades (maxing shields on 30%), making every single stage of it useful and freeing up a slot for some completely new upgrade.

CatCat is still an almost useless upgrade the way it works now, even if you tinker with the price, it won't change the fact that its incredibly impotent, it still fills in a slot that you could fill with one of the simply better upgrades in the same price range.

Only commenting on the chars I play the most (derpl and clunk).

Thank you for your time.

_________________
"They groaned, they stirred, they all uprose,
Nor spake, nor moved their eyes;
It had been strange, even in a dream,
To have seen those dead men rise."
- Samuel Coleridge "The Rime of the Ancient Mariner"

i quite like most of the changes, especially raelynn and skolldir.

there are a few things i'm not too sure about though:
does bull charger really need a price increase? and why is there no HP or movement buff for lonestar?

also i think gnaw gets punished a bit too hard by these nerfs. i actually like the idea of flex neck being dependent on the health of the weedling. i don't think it should stop working after just one tiny bit of dmg though. maybe 50% HP would be more reasonable?
with the weedling HP buff, you have to be careful not turn gnaw back into the early game pusher when he is supposed to be defensive - so i see where you're coming from when you want to reduce the amount he can carry back to 1. maybe leaving the hp where they are now and giving him back his 2 weedlings would be better though.

I agree with most of what slowwolf said in his post above this one.

The 3 solar per hit on magnet piercing is actually a slight nerf because he used to get 4 solar per hit and it scaled with damage. It's not a big deal at all but with the tongue stretcher buff I don't really care because my Leon is going to be just as good as ever.

Don't mind the crits not working on turrets, they were far too good anyway. Leon is still going to be a beast.


The only thing in the entire patch that I think is bad were the changes to clunk's attack. Got nerfed a little too hard in my opinion.