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 Post subject: How do you counter a tanky team?
 Post Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2016 12:28 pm 
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What should you do if you're a squishy who doesn't have tanks on their team, and you're having a hard time fighting? Is that just a failure of character composition? Or is there a certain tactic you can use in this situation?

For example, if you're Gnaw, Genji, Skree, Rocco, or anyone else who doesn't have good burst, and you can't quite finish people off because they're too tanky, what should you do? Focus on clearing and harass? Wait for your team to initiate? Initiate for your team? Bait yourself for your team?

This is one of the toughest situations I've found and I really need advice.


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 Post subject: Re: How do you counter a tanky team?
 Post Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2016 11:54 pm 
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Skree and Genji do have good burst if the double saw + damage is built and Genji can build health % damage on his cocoon. Genji's cocoon can do a lot of damage to tank characters and since they are pretty big it can be easy to hit them with it. Some general tips for fighting tanky teams is that you have to be careful and pick fights whenever they are in your advantage. The Gnaw can wear down their health pool with spit and if he has amplify damage it can take a lot off. In general try to counter build and take advantage of the fact that they have large hitboxes and can be hit easily.


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 Post subject: Re: How do you counter a tanky team?
 Post Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2016 1:59 pm 
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Most tanky nauts are heavily reliant on cooldowns. Use your mobility and harassing tools to poke them down and try not to commit to a straight up teamfight or 1v1 slog if you are on even footing. Instead focus on baiting their abilities or forcing them out of position and then go in hard once you see them waste something.

Rocco is actually insanely good vs tanks. Against tanks having continuous sources of dmg is usually more effective than burst. Since bursting a tank is obviously much harder and requires you to commit everything, heavily exposing yourself to counter initiates.

Nauts like Rocco, Ayla, Skree, Lux, Rae(with aa build) and Ted among others have excellent dps and are therefore good at punishing tanks for their mistakes.

So in general:
Don't attack them head on
Do focus on poking, baiting them out of position and baiting them into using their abilities
Do punish them hard when you catch them out of position and with abilities on cooldown

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 Post subject: Re: How do you counter a tanky team?
 Post Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2016 2:04 pm 
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i agree with eddster's post, and would like to chime in on kiting: This is a way to bait AND apply that continous damage. I assum you know what it is, it's when you stay just out of position of an enemy naut and are constantly updating your position as he moves in order to keep that just minimum distance away from him. Doing this as nauts like Ted, Rocco, etc. you can be AAing them the whole time.

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 Post subject: Re: How do you counter a tanky team?
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2016 4:57 pm 
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Straight from my dacha, now I’m running at 'cha... :ksenia:

The simplest answer is honestly Ksenia, but other than that it's a matter of what Ksenia does well: Bursting down at range, keeping enemies at bay, and keeping them from using their abilities. Tanks are slow and usually require the usage of abilities to either get enemies close enough to be killed or nuke them down in the small window of ambush time they will rely on to fight. Keeping them back and stopping them from attacking you before you can punch them in the face is the general strategy when dealing with healthier 'nauts.
As far as the first goes... well take your pick: :ayla: , :voltarroll: , :drool: , :glasses: Dash, :huh: , :lolstar: , :CocoWink: , :GnawShock: (though it's DoT so be care), :sleep: , :think: (sorta), :tear: (sorta), :rocco: , :chucho: , and :yoolip: Dinos. And let's not forget the god of ranged BS herself :raehands: .
Keeping enemies at bay amounts to CCers. A lot of 'nauts have a knock-back or slow of some sort, but you're particularly going to want stuns, snares, and slows to keep enemies away. :worship: is the god king of being an annoying nerd with his 1.5 second stun, but honorable mentions go :rocco: 's consistent slow, :scoop: 's consistent snare, :yoolip: 's 40 year stun, :facepalm: and :think: 's 40 hour disables (if their team plays with them), and of course the holy duo of making you want to delete the game: :LeonWink: and :ix: . Oh yeah: And :rae: 's stupid god damn Rift. :fist:
Keeping from using abilities? Again: Snares and Stuns, but also silences. :leoneyes: comes back to mind, along with :think: , :cocoon: , and :yoolip: . :clap: & :derp: BS Silence Cloud is absolute cancer in team-fights against the likes of Clunk and Skolldir, as are stupidly powerful knock-back abilities like :kiss: ball, :lolstar: bull, and :jimmy: 's charge. Oh and again: :rae: 's stupid 75% time slow! :rocco:

Hm. I guess the side in-a-nutshell is pick Raelynn.
So yeah: Pick Raelynn or Ksenia, in essence! :ayla:

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 Post subject: Re: How do you counter a tanky team?
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2016 9:45 pm 
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The Guybrush strategy. Mention how 24/26 of the cast counter tanks. Jobs done :tongue:

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 Post subject: Re: How do you counter a tanky team?
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2016 10:00 pm 
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susi counter tanks :drool:

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 Post subject: Re: How do you counter a tanky team?
 Post Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2016 6:49 pm 
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eddster27 wrote:
The Guybrush strategy. Mention how 24/26 of the cast counter tanks. Jobs done :tongue:

:^)
Giving options. Anyone can say "just pick (X)" and move on with their lives. You have to play in a specific way to counter certain styles, which is what I'm suggesting.
You can obviously just pick Raelynn, but if you play Raelynn with a priority on Cuddles or something you'll do far worse against a tanky close-range nuker comp. Cuddles Rae is based on brawling while Rift Rae is based on keeping enemies at bay, which you need to do against tank comps.

The uniqueness in Awesomenaut's upgrade system is that you can build almost every 'naut to counter another. There are no 'nauts that inherently make another "useless". Weaker, yes, but not useless. It is up to the player to determine how to play and what upgrades to use against what comps.

I mean, I'd love to open up a massive list of upgrade win rates and say "If playing (X) against (A), (B), and (C), take (H), (I), and (J) upgrades on your first ability..." I don't have time to write that zork, and aint nobody got time to read that zork. :sleep:
Playing MOBAs requires a degree of strategic thinking. That's the beauty in the genre.

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 Post subject: Re: How do you counter a tanky team?
 Post Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2016 1:30 am 
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Clunk is both best tank and best tank buster. Have a problem with high burst characters? Get shieldsplode and walk at it in a very aggressive manner. Have a problem with chip and DoT? 6th upgrade on bite (whatever it's called) is amazing.

TL;DR: fight fire with walking cannonballs.

P.S. That wasn't meant to be taken seriously, results may vary.

Just throw ksenia, sentry, coco, or a Voltar+yoolip train at them.

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 Post subject: Re: How do you counter a tanky team?
 Post Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2016 4:37 pm 
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Basically what pillow and edd said; I'd also like to say if you can effectively deny enemies from areas as well and from pushing, do that too.

For my specific stratagem with ayla, I'd kite and run out as to damage all of them at once, with max DPS and max shielding, then use an eye at low health to possibly destroy one of them and run away (or use SLD to regenerate full health with two creeps on either the enemy side or team side, whichever is closer). This generally doesn't work with intelligent teams that realize what you're doing (or ones that can counter your moves completely ofc) and does not work if you don't have team assistance since you'll just be suicide-ing.

Other than that, like GuyBrush said most nauts have something that can fight others or pseudo-counter them (some are very limited, or have things like "movement" that doesn't explicitly counter but can help to kite, like ayla has), and it is up to the specific map, characters (on both enemy and player teams) and composition, and skills available in the situation to ascertain what should be done.

I was actually going to post something cheezy about how this is the beauty of the genre of MOBAs too, but MemeBrush beat me too it as well :fist: .

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