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 Post subject: Re: Sentry's AA damage.
 Post Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 7:56 am 
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- You can max Teleport row at level 1 (but in practical circumstances that won't ever happen and lvl 4-5 is more likely, by which time you still don't deal 1k burst. It's nonsensical and pointless to compare numbers at a higher point than level 1 because the burst compared to the maximum health will only decrease. Claiming 1k burst is a lot means nothing if you don't specify a level.)
- 80*(90.9/60)*5 = 606 vs 121.1 80*(146.35/60)*5= 909. Damage increase = 303 (303 is more than 200, if you want a more 'practical number' it would be 320 due to getting 4 extra mines)
- You don't even want RFTD vs something like an online Gnaw/Skree/Voltar comp, because you cant hit their face with it anyway, and there's a lot more examples like that. (Pointless discussions like these shouldn't exist if all players participating actually played the 'naut in question.)
- Right, except all those people never appear on the actual forums and pretty much the only replies we get here are that those changes were bad. X said this, Y said that, well let them say it here. BadassKetchup, me, eddster (who all played in recent finals bracket) all disagree with these Teleport nerfs, and here you are talking about competitive.
- I have played Sentry for years, take your own advice.

Balance revolves all about numbers, if you don't put the effort into making elementary school calculations or at least understanding them, then your posts are worthless to me. That's not a personal attack, that's just how I think it is for anyone.

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 Post subject: Re: Sentry's AA damage.
 Post Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 12:57 pm 
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Location: In the land of someone else's imagination; occasionally also marking someone else's imagination.
Although this is all very amusing, especially:

Zold (I choose violence) wrote:
I'm done. Go do your mathematics before you make another post.

Doppelganger (Discussion is for the weak) wrote:
I'm done. Play the game before you make another post.

Zold (Purge the Scoop main) wrote:
Yeah, and this is why you shouldn't post about a character you hardly play...


Could we maybe discuss Sentry's AA now, as was happening before you two tasted blood?

  • Is the damage too safe for how easy it is to zone with it?
  • Does it promote a sedate and (unnecessarily) defensive playstyle?
  • Does AA spam have too few counters/counter too many 'Nauts?
  • Is it an unfun thing to play against/use, where unnecessary?
  • Is it warranted to have such an AA given his unreliable kit?

I, personally, never found it to be an issue, although it did zone quite well from what I remember. This was during teleburst's reign, which I am told no longer exist (or was nerfed heavily), so things might have changed.

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 Post subject: Re: Sentry's AA damage.
 Post Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 8:30 pm 
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The price cuts provided by Zold is a great start. Sentry is still among the most expensive characters and need his prices reduced, not increased. Reverting CoT is also important.

My suggestions for his AA and respective row:
A strong buff to encourage aggressive use of his auto-attack
- Photon mines contact damage increased to 100, floating damage remain at 80
- Not-so-serious Tank, damage increase reduced to +12% per stage, price reduced to 145 solar per stage

Changing an item providing unfair amounts of poke, while still leaving it similar design-wise
- Drive over skulls changed, after 1.6s of not firing AA, next shot has 50% increased range and damage, 205 solar
- Photon mines, base AoE increased by 10%

Buffing less dominant items
- Tactical vest, lifesteal increased from 18% to 20%
- Counter-intelligence Cross, homing damage increased from 50% to 66%

These suggestions should push him into a more rewarding aggressive tank, while making him able to poke with new DoS and open up new combinations of DoS + CiC + Damage and other fun options. Those changes will take additional time to implement; if time is not sufficient, just decrease DoS down to +50%. Also, a beta will be very important here, since these are more drastic changes.

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 Post subject: Re: Sentry's AA damage.
 Post Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 2:19 pm 
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Firren wrote:
Suggestions

I think those AA changes are pretty good suggestions, my only question would be whether the flying damage isn't too high, especially combined with CiC, which would now deal 66 damage.

Personally, I'd rather replace CiC over DoS (though I don't think it's fully necessary to replace either), because CiC is much more obnoxious to play against, and it's harder to buff flying damage while keeping CiC. That said, those changes are very likeable. The 10% increased AoE on base is a nice suggestion if DoS would be replaced.

Also, some 'bugs' that I think are important to adress, are:
- Make Sentry able to fire BHS instantly when his shield breaks.
- Fix the cooldown bug on Sentry's Black Hole Sun which causes the cooldown to reset after detonation.
- (CoT Dummy is currently bodyblocking people before it explodes, which is actually the best use of it now, but bugs like these would be fixed upon reversion anyway.)

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 Post subject: Re: Sentry's AA damage.
 Post Posted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 11:26 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Sentry's AA damage.
 Post Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 8:03 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Sentry's AA damage.
 Post Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 3:10 pm 
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On Circuits of Time, if they are to keep the delay/arming time as it is right now (mind you, I'm indifferent to this) I feel like the decoy itself could be improved. Make it so that it can't be destroyed in one shot by anything with a long range attack.

I think a version where the decoy is invincible/untargetable, but explodes automatically after a certain duration if nobody touches it (to avoid permanent area denial) would be worth a test at least.

As for Sentry's AA, I like the idea of an upgrade that deals more contact damage without affecting the floating mines.

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 Post subject: Re: Sentry's AA damage.
 Post Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 4:31 pm 
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rpvarela wrote:
I think a version where the decoy is invincible/untargetable, but explodes automatically after a certain duration if nobody touches it (to avoid permanent area denial) would be worth a test at least.


so dizzy's clone?

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 Post subject: Re: Sentry's AA damage.
 Post Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 4:59 pm 
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eddster27 wrote:
so dizzy's clone?


Nah, Dizzy's clones go out too fast to be useful as long-term area denial. I was thinking of something more like Yuri's mines, except clone-sized.

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 Post subject: Re: Sentry's AA damage.
 Post Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 12:02 am 
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agree with zold. idk how anyone can think scoops in a good place right now or that the telefrag rework was a good ideea. literally all that needed changing on beacon row was removing invis, thats literally it.

on top of that, uh doppel are you still deluded into thinking you actually positively affected scoop? just another reminder, the scoop changes were a result of you pushing changes for one of your mains constantly that EVERYONE disagreed with. you lied directly to ronimo about the support for those changes and put those changes in the balance document without getting anyone to agree to it. you then lied about the past support and everyone had to dig up the old posts to call you out because you wouldnt admit it. rly idk anyone takes balance posts from u seriously at all anymore

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