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 Post subject: Re: We need to do something about the imbalance+toxicity
 Post Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 8:58 am 
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nah, having a level disadvantage is your fault for playing worse
the xp system is an intentional snowball mechanic that punishes consistent mistakes and you're exaggerating how much a level different makes compared to pure mechanical skill, and you also blame reconnects, laggers, cheaters, and hackers whenever the game doesn't go your way and then you spread garbage, nonsensical lies on the forum in extremely tl;dr posts

Quote:
@Ant: It's not a gimmick. It's LITERALLY facts.

lying about a certain enemy penny that went legendary against you isn't giving facts, i'm pretty sure you call everyone you get outplayed by a bunch of cheaters and lag abusers since you can never accept getting outplayed by better players
there are problems in this game that actually need addressing (a few imbalances, l1s vs l9s, some antifun character designs, the fact that the playerbase doesn't exist) and we don't need ronimo to listen to a rage post


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 Post subject: Re: We need to do something about the imbalance+toxicity
 Post Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 9:02 am 
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Kattlarv wrote:
Literally almost every player I see jumps at the chance to exploit reconnects, or disconnects. I've had ONE game out of ~80 this month with a DC where people waited ~2 minutes to see if they came back.


This is because players don't feel like sitting around and waiting when a match should progress and continue; if this were truly supposed to be "fair", then reconnects would be global; this would also subsequently ruin the entire experience completely and be exploited to ruin matches. Thus, if someone has the unfortunate experience of having their internet connectivity turn to garbage, they either die or end up losing the match / getting locked out. It's frustrating for that one user, but it would be more frustrating to ruin 5 other player's experiences if they all had to wait up for one person. Thus, the lesser of two evils is picked; there's nothing cruel about this from a game design perspective whatsoever, as it still tries to provide the best experience possible without ruining things completely or being exploited.

Sidenote: Possibly stay on focus more with your thoughts, it's very hard to follow as you jump around from concept to concept. I'd also try to not let other people bother you from this community, some can be really salty; it's a side effect of being a MOBA player I guess :aylaroll: .

Additionally, the XP system by itself is "technically" fine, but we're still using old solar gains from pre-XP. Now, snowballs include health, dmg, AND upgrades as opposed to just possibly one of those (or even none, if the enemy builds into something dumb that doesn't help them whatsoever).

Since most of your post seems to be rants about your particular instances, it's kind of unclear what concepts you're trying to bring to discussion here (since we realistically cannot answer them all without massive walls of text and distortion); yes people are toxic, and yes there are a lot of new players in the community from F2P that are downright idiotic in their logic or are simply trolling. This is to be expected, it's the internet. You can report any toxicity in-game using the report system (ESC during a match and then hitting report, or after the match on the results screen going to the match tab and clicking on their profile icon and hitting report); you can additionally disable chat entirely if it's affecting your gameplay to a significant degree.

Other than that, I don't know what else to say except to not feed into trolling :ayla: .

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 Post subject: Re: We need to do something about the imbalance+toxicity
 Post Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 11:03 am 
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I agree with Ant and Neko (aside from the XP System being "technically fine.")

If you want to put forward a point, do try to be concise and focused...

Kattlarv wrote:
...It might be viable. But that's like praising daterape for "Hey, it WORKS!"...

...and try not to compare a video game to a serious sexual offence.

Doing that makes it hard to take you seriously, for obvious reasons.

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 Post subject: Re: We need to do something about the imbalance+toxicity
 Post Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 3:09 pm 
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The Lord Protector wrote:
Kattlarv wrote:
...It might be viable. But that's like praising daterape for "Hey, it WORKS!"...

...and try not to compare a video game to a serious sexual offence.

Doing that makes it hard to take you seriously, for obvious reasons.

^ This is kinda why I've been ignoring this thread. After I saw a wall of text that was 80% complaining and 20% discussing the actual problem, I dismissed this as a thread that should be in Anger Management.

Awesomenauts has balancing issues as well as toxicity issues.
So does League of Legends. So does DOTA 2. So does Smite. So does Overwatch. So does...
You get the idea. This isn't something mutually exclusive to this game. And making a broad "game is toxic and poorly balanced" thread is like saying "This country has problems and I'll make it great again."
It may get you elected as the president, but there's nothing really in that statement to prove.

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 Post subject: Re: We need to do something about the imbalance+toxicity
 Post Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 2:49 pm 
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I have a story to tell too!

In a game, the matchmaking decided to disconnect 2 players from the ennemy team at the very beggining of the game. We told to the lone guy "We'll wait and will not push until the 2 other boys connect". Bots were attacking of course, but we did not kill them. One player finally connected to the game after 1min. We told him we was waiting the last on before pushing but the 2 players went on our face and tried to kill us. We warned them but they decided to continue. So we fed to the bot, destroy the 2 first turrets before the last one finally connect.

Even when you want to be fair-play, they don't mind and try to kill you when you don't attack them nor kill them.

But I have no clue how to ballance that. Maybe there is nothing to ballance but maybe fix the disconnect issue while migrating host and stuff...

but I think like the others that it's not a balance topic, more a story telling and a complain than a balance request...

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 Post subject: Re: We need to do something about the imbalance+toxicity
 Post Posted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 1:22 am 
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Man, that was a busy month. Anyhow:

@Ant: So, for example: if we play together, and all you do is run into the enemy turret. Then it is MY fault that they have a higher level? Yeah, that seems perfectly reasonable.
And no, I am not. I've seen tons of matches where a person outplays another, but the other person still comes out alive, as they had the free damage and hp granted per level. If a situation you should have won is turned into a loss solely due to numbers, then numbers play a greater role than mechanical skill.

And stop talking out of your ass. I have not once claimed anyone to be a hacker/cheater. All YOU do on the other hand is deflect, lie and obfuscate as to not look bad. That you even dare to try spread the nonsense that no-one ever in the history of awesomenauts ever has died to a reconnect or lag related issue is just laughable. Since, like in all online games: Everyone always has a perfect 0 latency connection.

And calling me a liar, while lying about certain Penny's accomplishments that never happened isn't doing you any favours either.
I have been outplayed several times. One of the most fond memories I have has been against Laika. That guy can play.
People that on the other hand exploit lag, or lie and wait for someone to get a "reconnect" then leap on them, then scream "PURE SKILL!" at the top of their lung when someone calls them out on it. Is a whole different story. If you NEED a handicap in order to compete with anyone, then don't come bawling about how you're "outplaying" people.
Let me guess... in MMO's, you go after level 10 with your level 90 and brag about how you "pwn noobs" and how you "outplay" them?
->
Many people I've asked about why they stopped playing the game, has cited the cheese tactics and level imbalance as the main factors. As it sucks all the fun out of the game. In most games, you might as well just blow up the drill if a team lose a turret within 2 min, or if they are 2 levels behind. Just stop wasting everyones time with one side that aren't allowed to do * due to number imbalance. And the other side that, most the time: is just exploiting it.



@Neko: It still ruins the game for, on average:at least 3/6 people involved.
That isn't exactly a good compromise. Heck, many other games have a grace period. You could fix some of it by allowing late joins for up to ex: 2-3 minutes. Or, allowing the option to call it a draw. Just end the game with no punishment given to the side that had a DC. As currently, if there is a DC, 2 people are punished for something they had no control over. While 3 people are rewarded for it.

And eh, I know. I am kinda notorious bad at formulating more coherent sentences xP
And I am well aware of the salty people here. It really doesn't help that the game both rewards, and encourage toxic behaviour.

As said: Currently people basically get 5 positives while the people affected by it are punished with additional penalties. Without getting too political, the game has a very backwards "bootstraps" mentality to it's current system. If you're already ahead, you get free money, hand-outs, welfare and all that. But if you are behind, you are penalized for being punished. Essentially being imprisoned, foreclosed on and getting billed for getting foreclosed on. And also being fined for being imprisoned, along with your wealth being sized until you can pay your fine. With added interest ofc.
->
But yeah, the XP and solar system works in theory. Anything more than ~10 % imbalance just messes everything up.
I should prolly use the report system more. But it feels rather bad to go after the symptoms of the issue, rather than what is allowing it to fester and spread.



@TLP: (And GB) I guess I can just compile these into a single post. Will do that after this reply.

But secondly:I will have to say: Both yes and no. We can't cower behind the "It's just a game" any more if we want this media to be taken seriously. Yes, they are OBVIOUSLY not in the same ballpark. But it's the SAME mentality used to try and excuse it.
Keep a 0 tolerance against inexcusable excuses, else people WILL use them to inch closer, and eventually apply them to more horrible acts.



@Neki: Yeah... even if one side decides to be cool about it. That doesn't help against people that are douches. People are in general impatient, and the game currently promotes and rewards that. Something do has to be done, but the question is what...



(As said: Will just concisely compile things for a new thread)


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 Post subject: Re: We need to do something about the imbalance+toxicity
 Post Posted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 4:35 am 
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you're the one that whined when i completely stomped you and your trash genji build as penny and then lied and said you won and that i fed really hard, and you also whined on eddster's stream and complained about "luck" when you get outplayed

you're just one of those players that will never improve in this game because you don't understand any of the mechanics and would rather spam the forum with tl;dr walls of nonsense instead of improving at the game


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 Post subject: Re: We need to do something about the imbalance+toxicity
 Post Posted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 10:43 am 
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Awesomenauts is a team game.
The better team wins.
Not the better player.

You seem to have difficulty accept this, lol.
Yes, you deserve to win if you're playing well.
But your feeding teammate doesn't deserve to win whilst playing badly.
Unless he plays well enough for the better player to make up for it.


This system is fine.

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 Post subject: Re: We need to do something about the imbalance+toxicity
 Post Posted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 11:03 am 
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Oh, wonderful.

Can we please at least try to entertain each other's points of view without attempting to beat yourselves to death with the sharp edges of your keyboards?

It is possible not to like someone but still agree with them.

However...

Kattlarv wrote:
And stop talking out of your ass. I have not once claimed anyone to be a hacker/cheater. All YOU do on the other hand is deflect, lie and obfuscate as to not look bad.

...that is not helping.

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 Post subject: Re: We need to do something about the imbalance+toxicity
 Post Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 9:11 am 
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The Lord Protector wrote:
Oh, wonderful.

Can we please at least try to entertain each other's points of view without attempting to beat yourselves to death with the sharp edges of your keyboards?



Yes lets try this. I think Kattlarv has misunderstood how daterape works, most daterapes happen because of no fault of the victim, they are drugged or otherwise made docile by outside forces.

These repeated disconnects some people have however is mostly their own fault for not having better internet. They are willingly walking into situations were they might get dcd. If they don't want people to take advantage of that they should prepare better when going into games, especially at certain times of day when they might come across foreigners with particularly bad connections. I mean if I see a free kill presented right in front of me like that its hard not to take it and we certainly can't expect strange men to go against their nature in a situation like that.

I don't know how to turn that into a comparable sexualized situation, but maybe someone else can better relate this to Kattlarv.


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