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 Post subject: Re: Tentative Changes for 4.4
 Post Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 1:43 pm 
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FishmanDerp wrote:
Also Morrow so long as we agree that Nibbs does deserve some changes that's all I really want to reach an agreement on. As for what Japie said on Nibbs one has to consider whether it's more important to keep Nibbs' skill floor elements or make her general design less polarizing. Not to mention Speed after Breath could easily be nerfed if breath lasted less time etc.

I never disagreed with Nibbs needing changes. It's just kinda tough to know what direction she should be going in at this point. I feel like if any character needed a soft rework along the lines of of the failed Ted rework it'd be Nibbs, but again I'm not really sure wth Ronimo would do with her/if they would do anything anyways.

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 Post subject: Re: Tentative Changes for 4.4
 Post Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 1:46 pm 
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Percentages are weird things, really.

Eighty is twenty percent less than one hundred.

One hundred is, however, twenty-five percent larger than eighty.

I mean, come on, Ronimo. This is what attention to detail is.

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 Post subject: Re: Tentative Changes for 4.4
 Post Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 1:48 pm 
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Morrowsaw wrote:
FishmanDerp wrote:
Also Morrow so long as we agree that Nibbs does deserve some changes that's all I really want to reach an agreement on. As for what Japie said on Nibbs one has to consider whether it's more important to keep Nibbs' skill floor elements or make her general design less polarizing. Not to mention Speed after Breath could easily be nerfed if breath lasted less time etc.

I never disagreed with Nibbs needing changes. It's just kinda tough to know what direction she should be going in at this point. I feel like if any character needed a soft rework along the lines of of the failed Ted rework it'd be Nibbs, but again I'm not really sure wth Ronimo would do with her/if they would do anything anyways.

Yeah that's fair, I know you initially posted talking about Nibbs changes so it's not like I thought you were against the concept of changing her.

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 Post subject: Re: Tentative Changes for 4.4
 Post Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 2:06 pm 
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Zold wrote:
I wish there was just like a nerf three, buff three rule. I mean, this list isn't that huge but it's still way too big in my opinion.

If we had monthly balance patches, I think that'd work much better than these all changes in a single patch things. Nerf Ix, Smiles and Rocket, buff Yuri, Yoolip and Lonestar. (I seriously don't understand over half of the changes to characters that are already powerful or fine on this list.)

I think we all know it'd just end up being a cycle of buffs and nerfs to the characters the "balancers" play/dislike forever, and many characters would be ignored. Although that already looks like what's happening anyway.

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 Post subject: Re: Tentative Changes for 4.4
 Post Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 3:16 pm 
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The Lord Protector wrote:
Percentages are weird things, really.


Well, no

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 Post subject: Re: Tentative Changes for 4.4
 Post Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 4:05 pm 
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Zold wrote:
I wish there was just like a nerf three, buff three rule. I mean, this list isn't that huge but it's still way too big in my opinion.



I don't think it's too bad, a lot of the changes were really rough but I looked at the doc again, Jasper changed like 80% of it and the changes look a lot better now. Obviously still missing a few things, but we'll get there.

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 Post subject: Re: Tentative Changes for 4.4
 Post Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 4:46 pm 
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Doppelganger wrote:
Well, no

Aww, they are. At least to me.

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 Post subject: Re: Tentative Changes for 4.4
 Post Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 7:02 pm 
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Rocket with a batch of non-nerfs.
Remove/replace slow laser and Cigs already; or at the very least lower the Slowing power to 15% max and remove the homing from the projectiles (Thing is literally free 240+ damage and at the very least doubles laser damage.)
KB on Rocket Launch also has to go, he's already escaping when he uses this ability he doesn't need to be able to cancel his target's momentum on top of that.

Still say Smiles shouldn't have Stun on base tail, there's no reason to buy the increased stun (And nobody does) for as long as he gets to keep it on base.
We don't give Clunk base Snare, Leon base Silence, Swiggs base AOE, Coco base Stun on Ball, ect, for similar/exact reasons to why Smiles shouldn't have Stun on base Tail, yet for some reason Smiles is the exception cause he's new.
Also, Hook still needs a form of counterplay...

The Deadlift replacement upgrade on Pose sounds like it's guaranteed to be problematic.
Wouldn't be surprised to see that it would allow him to pull up 2 Poses in prolonged fights if the player timed their cancels well.

Yuri
SCD buff sounds pretty ridiculous to me, especially if Yuri is still going to be 100% invulnerable.
The health buff on top of getting barrier is just too much imo, it'll be near impossible to kill him lategame; one or the other, but not both.

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 Post subject: Re: Tentative Changes for 4.4
 Post Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 7:20 pm 
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RoachCake wrote:
The Deadlift replacement upgrade on Pose sounds like it's guaranteed to be problematic.
Wouldn't be surprised to see that it would allow him to pull up 2 Poses in prolonged fights if the player timed their cancels well.


It could work if they just made it so that it lowers the CD of protective pose by the % of pose remaining (Max 30% CD reduction) that way you can't just cheese a clunky 30% CD reduction

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 Post subject: Re: Tentative Changes for 4.4
 Post Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:55 pm 
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Smiles still needs attention.

Dizzy's AA does feel underwhelming but i think a small increase to AA speed would be fine, not damage. Buffing the AA mine upgrade is good tho.

Rockets speed reduction is a good, its a good start to justify his damage and actually give him a reason to save trap off CD instead of mindlessly using it.

I agree with whats been said about Deadlifts CD upgrade, it should be based on how much charge pose has left with 10% being the lowest.

Frogs new upgrade might actually see use because you can manually cancel it so players can use it when they line up the twister explosion. It's a start though.

I don't know about Genji's droid cocoon, as long as it doesn't one shot super droids.

Yoolips Sonic Wrench could be problematic, I suggest it heals by 50% and maybe increase its cd effect.

Buffing Ix's heals is a good start. People only use it when they absolutely have to now

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