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The Randomizer3000
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Post subject: Re: Balance Posted: Sun Oct 31, 2010 5:41 pm |
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Joined: Sat Aug 08, 2009 4:25 am Posts: 62 Location: somewhere
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BusterK wrote: The Randomizer3000 wrote: ^^ true true.
an other idea, but rather expensive i thinks, is to have DLC units and spells. the player could choose his units and spells in a profile before the game begins and have their own personal army type. the only problem I see with this is that it might be a bit expencive for the ronimo team. maybe for S&S2? I'm a bit unclear of how this would work. You mean that these spells/units can be added to any faction? I can just picture there be 1 broken unit/spell that everyone will be just abusing, plus it takes away from the unique aspects of each race. What I was thinking was that there would be: A: each unit/spell would cost a certian amount to put into your tech tree (If you've played fire emblem radiant dawn im thinking like how you equiped the skills, each unit costs points to put into your tech tree, as stated). B: each faction would have their own unique units to download or whatever. I was thinking along the line of that. so somebody can have a really good unit but it would take away from the rest of there army and spells.
_________________ The meek shall inherit the earth, but not its mineral rights.
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Japes
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Post subject: Re: Balance Posted: Sun Oct 31, 2010 7:13 pm |
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Joined: Mon Jun 08, 2009 2:33 am Posts: 96 Location: United States
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The Randomizer3000 wrote: BusterK wrote: The Randomizer3000 wrote: ^^ true true.
an other idea, but rather expensive i thinks, is to have DLC units and spells. the player could choose his units and spells in a profile before the game begins and have their own personal army type. the only problem I see with this is that it might be a bit expencive for the ronimo team. maybe for S&S2? I'm a bit unclear of how this would work. You mean that these spells/units can be added to any faction? I can just picture there be 1 broken unit/spell that everyone will be just abusing, plus it takes away from the unique aspects of each race. What I was thinking was that there would be: A: each unit/spell would cost a certian amount to put into your tech tree (If you've played fire emblem radiant dawn im thinking like how you equiped the skills, each unit costs points to put into your tech tree, as stated). B: each faction would have their own unique units to download or whatever. I was thinking along the line of that. so somebody can have a really good unit but it would take away from the rest of there army and spells. This sounds less like a DLC idea, and more like a sequel idea. I really like it, but I just kind of wonder if it would take away the Swords and Soldiers "feel"...
_________________ If the moon was made of barbecued spare ribs, would you eat it?
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david_A
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Post subject: Re: Balance Posted: Sun Oct 31, 2010 11:44 pm |
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Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2010 3:09 pm Posts: 22
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BusterK wrote: The Randomizer3000 wrote: If anything there need to be more balance updates. Thor's hammer is just terrible compared to boulder+dragon (both global spells) and even if you use it, it can't really turn the tide of battle (since you need to have a view of their workers to make it as effective as the other 2). Maybe Thor could throw it and it could bounce 2-3x. The HP of the tower doesn't mean anything at all (who uses it as a roadblock anyway?). Dragon really needs a big nerf (completely safe compared to the other 2, and 10x more effective, no drawbacks) by either reducing the fuel and/or increasing its movement speed by a lot (makes it harder to nuke all their workers). Boulder gets stopped by towers, Thor's hammer needs vision, Dragon needs nothing. Either make Thor's hammer usable or nerf dragon. I'd really like to start using Viking but they really have nothing compared to the other 2 races, yeah maybe the zapping workers trick, outside of that they really don't have many counters to the other races. Their best spell (rage) is hardly usable since your grouped units will be poison bombed/flame arrowed or terracotta'd/caged. You can even counter-rage which is a lot more effective. IMO thors hammer is fine, dragon just needs a nerf. Boulder is good but it becomes very useless once towers are up.
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BusterK
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Post subject: Re: Balance Posted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 5:41 pm |
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Joined: Wed Oct 27, 2010 6:05 pm Posts: 43 Location: USA
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The Randomizer3000 wrote: What I was thinking was that there would be:
A: each unit/spell would cost a certian amount to put into your tech tree (If you've played fire emblem radiant dawn im thinking like how you equiped the skills, each unit costs points to put into your tech tree, as stated).
B: each faction would have their own unique units to download or whatever.
I was thinking along the line of that. so somebody can have a really good unit but it would take away from the rest of there army and spells. Sounds interesting, but I think a new faction is more likely to happen. david_A: I've never seen anyone use Thor's Hammer against me online (Viking players are very rare, and if you beat them they usuallyt pick Chinese in the rematch) and the only time I've used it is for humiliation/a coup de grace at a point when I have already won the match. 6/10 of the top 10 players main Chinese (also notice: no Viking at all). Almost every match I face an opponent who is using Chinese.  You would think the devs would catch on, but no. Sword/terracotta nerf is a start, and I'm hoping that it will balance things out fairly enough, but I really doubt it will see a decline in Chinese users at all (and they'll still be the strongest faction).
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david_A
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Post subject: Re: Balance Posted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 6:52 pm |
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Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2010 3:09 pm Posts: 22
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I agree with your view of thors hammer but I think boulder is not to far from that same role the exception bieng if there are no towers up then boulder becomes a lot better. I don't think buffing thors hammer will make vikings any better unless they completly make it broken, I like the catapult changes I think that's a step in the right direction. The other problem I have with vikings is that rage and thors hammer are the only spells the damage multiple targets, rage requires the you have a good amount of units to deal good damage and that your opponents are stacked or else its not gonna do much and since it stacks your units it puts you at risk of a counter rage, poison cloud or fire arrows. Thors hammer is a better aoe spell but its expensive on research and mana cost.
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Veilos
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Post subject: Re: Balance Posted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 8:57 pm |
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Joined: Tue Oct 26, 2010 9:32 pm Posts: 4
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BusterK wrote: The Randomizer3000 wrote: What I was thinking was that there would be:
A: each unit/spell would cost a certian amount to put into your tech tree (If you've played fire emblem radiant dawn im thinking like how you equiped the skills, each unit costs points to put into your tech tree, as stated).
B: each faction would have their own unique units to download or whatever.
I was thinking along the line of that. so somebody can have a really good unit but it would take away from the rest of there army and spells. Sounds interesting, but I think a new faction is more likely to happen. david_A: I've never seen anyone use Thor's Hammer against me online (Viking players are very rare, and if you beat them they usuallyt pick Chinese in the rematch) and the only time I've used it is for humiliation/a coup de grace at a point when I have already won the match. 6/10 of the top 10 players main Chinese (also notice: no Viking at all). Almost every match I face an opponent who is using Chinese.  You would think the devs would catch on, but no. Sword/terracotta nerf is a start, and I'm hoping that it will balance things out fairly enough, but I really doubt it will see a decline in Chinese users at all (and they'll still be the strongest faction). I think we can all agree that the vikings are at a disadvantage right now, but the Chinese are not significantly better than the Aztecs if both are played well. It is true the 6 of the top 10 are main Chinese, but you failed to mention that the top player, and 2 of the top 3 (last time I checked) are main Aztecs. To me, this seems to indicate that if looking at the top 10 is a good gauge of balance, which isn't unreasonable, the Chinese and Aztecs are pretty much tied. Complaining solely about the Chinese because you happen to like the Aztecs is hardly fair. All three races have good/cheap tactics. Dart rushing and mass sacrifice/mind control come to mind if I wanted to pick on the Aztecs for example. If they make swords/terracotta worse than they are now what are the Chinese supposed to start with, especially against the Vikings? A good berserker rush is tough to stop as it is. To really improve balance, all that needs to be done is give the vikings a better chance if the game lasts beyond the first few minutes, in my opinion (I don't play vikings).
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JWL1986
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Post subject: Re: Balance Posted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 10:40 pm |
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Joined: Sat Sep 05, 2009 9:41 pm Posts: 55 Location: Houston/Austin, TX
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I think one way Vikings could be improved is tweaking the Heal spell. I don't really see this spell used very often, despite how essential it seems. I think the mechanics are fine, but the price may need to be changed. Since the Chinese Shield spell costs 70 gold to research, maybe Heal should cost 70 gold as well? Shield used to cost 120 gold, like Heal does now. So maybe Heal needs to be put in a similar price range?
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niqster
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Post subject: Re: Balance Posted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 11:43 pm |
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Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2010 12:55 am Posts: 7
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I think the easiest way to help the heal spell would be to make it aoe. I find it odd that vikings don't have an aoe spell till tier 3, which may help in the reason why they are weak past the first few mins of the game as BusterK stated. If they made their tier 2 spell, heal, a little bit weaker in heal but aoe much like the opposite of Aztecs Poison, I believe this would help them considerably without making it potentially broken, if they adjust the heal amount to correspond with the new aoe property.
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The Randomizer3000
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Post subject: Re: Balance Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 12:30 am |
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Joined: Sat Aug 08, 2009 4:25 am Posts: 62 Location: somewhere
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maybe they can add a small amount of damage to the snowstorm spell. it would be good if the vikings had an other aoe spell to complement it, but if it gave out a small amount of damage (maybe just under half a dart blowers hp?) it would give the vikings some survive ability during the time you dont have thors hammer and when your wait for it to recharge. correct me if im wrong but didnt snowstorm get nocked down in price teir or something? if so tell me plz. tis to lazy to check for myself 
_________________ The meek shall inherit the earth, but not its mineral rights.
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BusterK
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Post subject: Re: Balance Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 12:51 pm |
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Joined: Wed Oct 27, 2010 6:05 pm Posts: 43 Location: USA
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Veilos wrote: I think we can all agree that the vikings are at a disadvantage right now, but the Chinese are not significantly better than the Aztecs if both are played well. It is true the 6 of the top 10 are main Chinese, but you failed to mention that the top player, and 2 of the top 3 (last time I checked) are main Aztecs. To me, this seems to indicate that if looking at the top 10 is a good gauge of balance, which isn't unreasonable, the Chinese and Aztecs are pretty much tied. Complaining solely about the Chinese because you happen to like the Aztecs is hardly fair. All three races have good/cheap tactics. Dart rushing and mass sacrifice/mind control come to mind if I wanted to pick on the Aztecs for example. If they make swords/terracotta worse than they are now what are the Chinese supposed to start with, especially against the Vikings? A good berserker rush is tough to stop as it is. To really improve balance, all that needs to be done is give the vikings a better chance if the game lasts beyond the first few minutes, in my opinion (I don't play vikings). Compare Chinese options to Aztec. Chinese have a lot more ways of dealing with other races than Aztec do (and for Vikings, even more). They also have a LOT better ways of pushing, whereas Aztec only have necro (which Chinese can either stone OR arrow) and maybe MC. Dragon wins over boulder almost always (people usually have at least 1 tower by late game) since the former can go straight for the opponent's economy. Unit for unit Chinese will ALWAYS win. The ONLY way Aztec can win (against Chinese) is through Mind Control+giant sacrifice, and there is no other alternative! The fact that Chinese have so many easy ways to win kind of makes your Aztec argument a moot point. Oh let's not forget how late game Chinese can just Dragon you, and the only time I've successfully recovered from a dragon is guess what, Mind Control, and I had a lot of mana too luckily. It has less to do with the fact that I main Aztec (it's not like I only play as them, you know) and more to do with my experience playing S&S on the PSN (600+games and counting)... and lol, DART rushing is only effective vs Viking (cause guess what? Chinese swords can reflect), and MC only comes late game when Chinese most likely already have the upper hand. Berserker rushing can be stopped by Zen Master rushing or stalling with stone/swords and getting rockets. Or you can use swords+shield and arrow.  Monkeys might even work too. How many Aztec players do you face compared to Chinese on an average basis? For me it's maybe 2/10 times (non-chinese), maybe 1/10. Fact is they are a broken faction and it shows both on the leaderboards and the frequency they get picked. Hopefully with the nerfs it might make using jaguars vs swords viable now, but like I said previously I really doubt it will see a decline in Chi users. Dragon needs a nerf, and we need more maps!!!! Nerf Dragon, boost Viking a bit, and it might be fine.
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