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 Post subject: Re: League reset, when?
 Post Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 2:27 pm 
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Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2016 6:31 am
Posts: 50
It's actually quite funny, on there homepage(Awesomenauts.com)
You'll find very neatly stached away, mention of this very topic.
Leaderboard Reset
What date you ask? Thought you'd never ask.
May 16, 2017 of this very year.
Now I'm neither a scientist or horologist but something tells me,
"Something tells me"
The people who are suppose to be in charge of keeping track of there agenda can't keep track of a simple task.
Look, I know creating the next shtick the next flavor of the month can be taxing on the team but come on RONIMO!
It's only been 7 months since the last leaderboard reset.
What the hell gives...
Even the leaderboards on PONG Atari had more frequent resets then this.

#MakeNautsMoreLikePong


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 Post subject: Re: League reset, when?
 Post Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 3:11 pm 
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robochase6000 wrote:
i just played with and against a handful of L1 players yesterday. they're not just abandoned smurf accounts - believe it or not, they're actually out there winning & losing games!

You're going to hyperbole again.

I never said every L1 account was inactive.

Got it?

Cool.

Enough accounts are inactive that it's a problem. The fact that it's possible to not move in ranking by not playing means that it's a problem. If it can be abused, it will. And this isn't just about L1, either, it's the leaderboards as a whole. If too many L3's are inactive and not playing the game, it's that many fewer players that L4 players can't get matched against and therefore can't beat and can't pass, no matter how good they get.

Inactive accounts in every league increase over time as a season progresses and some people just stop playing the game. This is why season resets and/or rank decay are necessary. Comprende?

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 Post subject: Re: League reset, when?
 Post Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 5:00 pm 
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Xelrog, I understand the problem you're trying to illustrate but I don't believe the leaderboard is anywhere close to that yet

Back to hyperbole: even if all of league 3 players vanished one day (rapture? Idk), galactron would still find opponents for league 4 players. As I stated before but perhaps less clearly, the leaderboard and the matchmaker are separate (but linked) systems. The matchmaker finds people online to put in matches together based on their leaderboard position/rank. It will look beyond a league's worth of rank difference if there are not enough players online to find an ideal match. so, it doesn't really matter right now if 10% of the players on the leaderboard are inactive. What matters is who is online right now, looking for a game.

I'll admit the leaderboard could use a cleaning up eventually, but I just don't see the need currently. Someone here had an idea to hide inactive players from the leaderboard temporarily which is probably the safest solution I've seen for this problem.

Niki wrote:
Smurfs aren't a huge deal as f2p made it very rewarding to play on your main accounts. A season reset would at least get rid of the smurfs on the leaderboards, but that wouldn't be why I'd like a new season. I was at like ~21200 rating and if i can't maintain a 90% winrate solo queue, I drop in rating by a huge amount that I can't gain back. This would force me to play on alts to have any fair leaderboard progression :shrug: The season before I was able to climb to 21500 and playing after that, maintaining the same winrate of before, dropped down to 19800. This might not mean anything to you, but you can imagine how ridiculous playing feels for me, when I can't progress anymore unless I win 95% of games. Leaderboard resets are important, but I feel like Ronimo doesn't wanna do that because of the few days of unfair matchmaking for new players, although I'm sure they don't like competing on the leaderboards against players with 1000 games this season and would like to start over.


Hey niki...maybe you should find a harder game to play :) progressing on the leaderboard for you is kind of a paradox because you're already as high as you can go. I agree there's not much incentive for you to keep playing, but I don't think a leaderboard reset is a healthy way to appease you (I mean in terms of the games' health & for the sake of the noobs you'd curb stomp) . More high level tournaments, coordinated times league 1's can play ranked games against each other, etc

Your point about new players wanting a season reset because they're playing way out of their element is interesting and a very real problem from what I've gathered. I think maybe that uncertainty period is too generous about handing out rank perhaps? It's hard to say.

Or there should be a longer 1-way uncertainty period for dropping back down to ensure new players aren't just accidentally getting carried too high up or getting lucky.

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 Post subject: Re: League reset, when?
 Post Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 6:47 pm 
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rybakowsky wrote:
I feel like climbing the leaderboard should look like this:
-lets say you are L4 player
-you play bunch of matches with other L4 people
-you won majority of them so it means you are better than L4 plaers
-you advance to L3
-you play with L3 players and if your skill isn't any better than L3 you stay here
-but you got better over time so you won another bunch of matches and you advance to L2

I have no idea about leaderboards in other games but this how I feel leaderboard systems should work. :drool:


In theory it should be how it works.

After reading more of this thread (admittedly I glossed through the first time a bit) I've deduced the 3 core problems right now with the leaderboard and they all counter eachother in a way.

I'll start with the first: Amount of players.

As Ryba has pointed out, to progress in a leaderboard you play people with your own skill level and the game dictates how many wins/losses you get and adjusts your ranking. However if the amount of players in league 3 is small, then you'll be placed against opponents lower or higher then you in the board. As an example, I'm high L2 right now, but the last 3 days I have been pitted against league 5s and people with less then 100 hours.

The hours aren't a problem for me more then the disparity of who I'm matched with (this also brings out the argument of how hard it is to find proper matchmaking when you're L2-L1).

Second issue I find are smurfs.

Smurf accounts artificially inflate the leaderboard and with a lack rank decay it can be hard to bypass them at higher ranks (not impossible just hard). Visually they also look like there should be plenty of players you should be matched with, but if they're not in your region (or even online) you'll fly up or down a few leagues and cause a bit of upset for multiple parties.

From personal experience I remember there being a ton of smurf accounts back in the day when Nauts kept being given for free off Humble Bundle among other sources so it was common for people to have 3 or 4 copies of the game. As someone stated with F2P making it unrewarding to play as a smurf due to the characters requiring points to unlock now, resetting the leaderboard after 7 months might remove the clutter.

And finally, the 3rd issue: Being online.

This ties into many factors but due to the playerbase still being somewhat small (though much larger then a few months ago thankfully), it's highly recommended to play at peak hours so you can find players relative to your skill level and have more consistent matches. However as we all know, that logic can be thrown out the window for people playing in less dense areas (Australia for example).

If no one in League 3 or 4 is online and you're League 4 yourself, where does the match making pit you? Usually it's with the cabbages in League 6 or in a rare occurrence, you'll be placed against League 1 players and just get completely stomped most likely. I'm not sure about you, but for me, if I'm getting that hamfisted in a game and lose it in under 5-10min I don't learn much about what happened other then "that guy is good".

While this 3rd factor won't be fixed with a reset in the leaderboard, it may visually be more truthful to what kind of matches you'll be faced with depending on when you play.

I hope I was coherent enough to show my point, my brain tends to wander and with it my writing.


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 Post subject: Re: League reset, when?
 Post Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 10:09 pm 
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My personal reason for wanting a reset is so I can diversify. Right now the only naut I can maintain mid-L1 with is coco. With Rae and lone I'm probably borderline L1, and with the rest of the cast I'm between 500 and 1000 in L2.

Since my main account is currently ~150, I'd have to lose a disgusting number of games in a row to drop enough ranks to play someone new. That's not fun. At the same time, my coco is lvl 12 so playing more with her also isn't fun.

I've been playing at around rank 800 with my alt and its closing in on level 30. I'd love to put this time in on my main account instead and just drop the alt, but I don't want to throw 50 games just to hit an appropriate ranking for my bad nauts.

The season reset isn't just important to mix things up now and then. It's also important to allow players to play at an appropriate level when all of their nauts aren't in the same league.


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 Post subject: Re: League reset, when?
 Post Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 3:19 am 
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redria7 wrote:
My personal reason for wanting a reset is so I can diversify. Right now the only naut I can maintain mid-L1 with is coco. With Rae and lone I'm probably borderline L1, and with the rest of the cast I'm between 500 and 1000 in L2.


Also 100% agree with that, forces you to play your best character else you only experience rank drops. Someone else mentioned that it has been 7 months since the last reset and that's just ridiculous to me. It's a very important part of progression and I don't think Ronimo can justify no reset because there are inconvenient times (e.g. HMS, F2P launch). At one point you really gotta suck it up for those first 5 days of bad matchmaking and make a reset.

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 Post subject: Re: League reset, when?
 Post Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 6:09 am 
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robochase6000 wrote:
I'll admit the leaderboard could use a cleaning up eventually,
As of today June 11, 2017. It has been a total of 7 Months

robochase6000 wrote:
but I just don't see the need currently.
Sorry the more and more I cover your posts on this topic of (Leader Board Reset)
believe me, I gotta tell you this isn't the first time. Come to the conclusion you're the guy who tries to hide his ashamed incest love. It's so obvious now, with your arms crossed over your chest, clearing your throat as you tug at your collar. I see you, you ain't fooling anyone.

In all seriousness at least by having a scheduled reset let's say every four months, it would give the people who actively play the game a chance to prove themselves once again every fourth month to climb the ranks.
Were not asking RONIMO to have leagues reset every other month, the only thing that would do, similar to how professional hockey feels to me currently with how many games they play in a season WATERED DOWN

I've heard people on forum mentioning a rank decay system. Gotta say this wins my vote, love this idea in any game like this in AWESOMENAUTS. Not only will this help similar to how penalizing people from leaving match early in game but would compel people to play more on there main account e.g
Niki wrote:
why I'd like a new season. I was at like ~21200 rating and if i can't maintain a 90% winrate solo queue, I drop in rating by a huge amount that I can't gain back. This would force me to play on alts to have any fair leaderboard progression :shrug: The season before I was able to climb to 21500 and playing after that, maintaining the same winrate of before, dropped down to 19800. This might not mean anything to you, but you can imagine how ridiculous playing feels for me, when I can't progress anymore unless I win 95% of games.

So too sum it all up POWER LEVEL OVER 9000 MEME, not only is a scheduled season reset important for players growth but also is important for keep things fresh.


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 Post subject: Re: League reset, when?
 Post Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 3:15 pm 
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Rank decay or even go as far as what rocket league does. If you don't play a ranked match for x amount of days (I forgot how long but it's a few weeks), the game temporarily removes you from the Leaderboards until you play more matches. A game like that values leaderboard integrity and progression. Ronimo just doesn't have the same initiatives just yet. Maybe when we actually split the game into ranked and unranked like xelrog said.

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 Post subject: Re: League reset, when?
 Post Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 3:43 pm 
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silascrow wrote:
Sorry the more and more I cover your posts on this topic of (Leader Board Reset) believe me, I gotta tell you this isn't the first time. Come to the conclusion you're the guy who tries to hide his ashamed incest love. It's so obvious now, with your arms crossed over your chest, clearing your throat as you tug at your collar. I see you, you ain't fooling anyone.


I care more about the new player experience than I do your stupid leaderboard vanity project, Silas.

Also: * you

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 Post subject: Re: League reset, when?
 Post Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 4:19 pm 
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Aaron12906m wrote:
Rank decay or even go as far as what rocket league does. If you don't play a ranked match for x amount of days (I forgot how long but it's a few weeks), the game temporarily removes you from the Leaderboards until you play more matches. A game like that values leaderboard integrity and progression. Ronimo just doesn't have the same initiatives just yet. Maybe when we actually split the game into ranked and unranked like xelrog said.


For clarification: Rocket League doesn't only hide your rank. The longer you haven't played, the more you're treated like a new player when it comes to rating gain/loss (new players gain and lose more rating to help get to the correct rank more quickly)

This doesn't remove the need for season resets though (the wait for season 4 in Rocket League was quite similar to this thread) and resetting rankings comes with the same issues still (aka, bad matchups until the leaderboards finally settle down again).

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