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 Post subject: Re: Real lack of faith recently
 Post Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 12:41 am 
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robochase69 wrote:
something wrong hehe


I think you just misunderstood Sam. What he meant by that, was that those players that message him are usually the last players to quit Awesomenauts. But when even those said players find no reason to play, something must be wrong. You don't have to have an entire discussion over something so insignificant because of your outbursts when you see something you dislike, completely missing the point.

Try focusing on what Sam actually tried to say instead of blindly hating on things, there's no need for that. It's obvious someone with a lot of game knowledge, who's only intention is to help the game for all players involved, is gonna do a better job at suggesting changes for new players than someone inexperienced with a very subjective view of the game, such as Ronimo.

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 Post subject: Re: Real lack of faith recently
 Post Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 1:35 am 
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I like how my post was completely ignored, lol.

Better ignore it so you can keep scapegoating the community :thumb:

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 Post subject: Re: Real lack of faith recently
 Post Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 4:56 am 
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i'm sorry for misunderstanding the essence sam's post, but he really did say that veteran players taking a break is a bigger deal than new players quitting in frustration. they're both problems for ronimo, but if you don't see how new players getting frustrated & quitting is a much bigger deal, it's going to be very hard to see eye to eye.

new players are the lifeblood of a game. you can say 'oh but we bought all the skins, please don't ignore me!!!' what that really means is that ronimo has extracted as much wealth from you as they can until they produce more purchasable content. from ronimo's perspective, there's way more potential revenue in hooking fresh meat who could purchase all those same skins again. not to mention that the game is now completely free btw. ronimo has to either hook new players for the long term, or say 'nah, we're fine and don't want to grow', while they keep collecting 1-5 dollars from existing, fatigued players. one path has a potential future, the other will quickly dwindle.

Niki wrote:
It's obvious someone with a lot of game knowledge, who's only intention is to help the game for all players involved, is gonna do a better job at suggesting changes for new players than someone inexperienced with a very subjective view of the game, such as Ronimo.


regardless of whether you think certain players are more qualified to balance the game than ronimo is, they are completely qualified in deciding how to make their game more accessible. as far as i'm concerned, they are the best in the business at making accessible MOBAs. they have their own analytics, they play the game, and it doesn't take a top tier L1 gamer to realize that the characters they chose to focus on in the betas have frustrating aspects. mines are not fun to play against even if you know to avoid them, and yuri's controls are not intuitive. some people see derpl as a highly rewarding character, but most people just see him as a cheesy camper (it's like there's collective amnesia going around about him and starstorm too...). and ted is pretty clunky compared to just about every other naut bar yuri. they are completely justified to scrutinize these characters IMO.

i don't personally believe these characters are as bad for the state of the game as say old-timey ayla was (who was casually dismissed as a non-issue by high level players like forever btw if you want to talk about the merits of putting high level players in charge of balance for the good of new players everywhere), but they certainly have frustrating aspects that can and absolutely should be smoothed over.

& to people baffled that they're reworking characters when there are higher priority issues like matchmaking - it's not like everyone at ronimo are all interchangable cogs that can jump onto galactron issues at the same time or something. it seems to me that they are trying to tackle many of the games' issues simultaneously from a variety of angles. reworking frustrating characters happens to be low hanging fruit. it's likely easy for a designer to go in there and make tweaks without much help from a (busy) programmer.

i probably have more to say about this if someone wants to remind me again that i misread sam's post :D i am sorry, sam.


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 Post subject: Re: Real lack of faith recently
 Post Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 10:58 pm 
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Robo, I think you're missing the point here... I agree with you wholeheartedly we do need new players and player retention as well, but it is a bigger deal when a veteran player leaves because they're the SUPPORT for the community, not the newer player. Without a community, the game itself would've died a long long time ago; we do tech support and reporting, balance, discussions, host events, do streams, spread word of 'Nauts, and much much more that a single company of around 20 - 30 people simply cannot organize or manage.

If you don't understand this fact, this discussion is going to go no where; no one here is saying that we don't need new players or that they're not important, but that if part of our community leaves then it matters a hella lot more than a random F2P person coming in and leaving after 3 days. There's always going to be people of the latter, but only so many of the former type have actually stayed and formed relationships and bonds with the community and the game.

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 Post subject: Re: Real lack of faith recently
 Post Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 1:44 am 
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Nekomian wrote:
Robo, I think you're missing the point here... I agree with you wholeheartedly we do need new players and player retention as well, but it is a bigger deal when a veteran player leaves

qft

In the various business-oriented jobs I've worked, retaining customers is usually a higher priority than converting customers (tho converting is usually weighted heavier). I know that's not quite the issue you were addressing, but the same principles apply. A new community usually grows when one is already established.

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 Post subject: Re: Real lack of faith recently
 Post Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 9:59 am 
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It would be nice if we could have Ronimo's perspective on all these new points (beyond "it's a bummer guys").

I can understand giving it a meaningful internal discussion may take time, but it has been more than three weeks of radio silence. Not a good way to work on that "apparent lack of communication."

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 Post subject: Re: Real lack of faith recently
 Post Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 10:25 am 
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robochase6000 wrote:
i'm sorry for misunderstanding the essence sam's post, but he really did say that veteran players taking a break is a bigger deal than new players quitting in frustration. they're both problems for ronimo, but if you don't see how new players getting frustrated & quitting is a much bigger deal, it's going to be very hard to see eye to eye.

new players are the lifeblood of a game. you can say 'oh but we bought all the skins, please don't ignore me!!!' what that really means is that ronimo has extracted as much wealth from you as they can until they produce more purchasable content. from ronimo's perspective, there's way more potential revenue in hooking fresh meat who could purchase all those same skins again. not to mention that the game is now completely free btw. ronimo has to either hook new players for the long term, or say 'nah, we're fine and don't want to grow', while they keep collecting 1-5 dollars from existing, fatigued players. one path has a potential future, the other will quickly dwindle.

Wait wait wait. So you think new players are the lifeblood of the game. But you think that ronimo needs to keep them here for the long term. And at the same time you think the current long term players matter much less than new players?


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 Post subject: Re: Real lack of faith recently
 Post Posted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 9:26 am 
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All I can say as a veteran player is I'm loving the game after the free to play update. 2 reasons for this, I think:

1. I hadn't played in nearly a year so the nostalgia trip and getting back into playing during the past 2 months are making me remember why I love this game.

2. I've mostly taken a step back from worrying about how the game is balanced, and worrying about this change or that change. I just want to play the game with my friends and get involved in the community events for fun while we are all still here.

Yes it could be a "better" game, but it is still one of my favourites and I'm not going to complain massively about a little thing (IMO) here and there that has had such a massive impact on my life in its imperfect state. Any improvement is a blessing, but even if it doesn't change, I'll still play and have a good time.

Life is precious guys, share the love :kiss:

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 Post subject: Re: Real lack of faith recently
 Post Posted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 10:10 am 
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burrhe wrote:
All I can say as a veteran player is I'm loving the game after the free to play update. 2 reasons for this, I think:

1. I hadn't played in nearly a year so the nostalgia trip and getting back into playing during the past 2 months are making me remember why I love this game.

2. I've mostly taken a step back from worrying about how the game is balanced, and worrying about this change or that change. I just want to play the game with my friends and get involved in the community events for fun while we are all still here.

Yes it could be a "better" game, but it is still one of my favourites and I'm not going to complain massively about a little thing (IMO) here and there that has had such a massive impact on my life in its imperfect state. Any improvement is a blessing, but even if it doesn't change, I'll still play and have a good time.

Life is precious guys, share the love :kiss:


:thumb:

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My concise guide to balancing
Cynderp wrote:
The year is 20XX. Everyone can play Awesomenauts to niki levels of perfection. All gameplay has been deemed irrelevant and matches are decided by a game of Roflnauts. All new metas are based on Roflnauts DMs.


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 Post subject: Re: Real lack of faith recently
 Post Posted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 10:59 am 
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Gameinsky wrote:
burrhe wrote:
All I can say as a veteran player is I'm loving the game after the free to play update. 2 reasons for this, I think:

1. I hadn't played in nearly a year so the nostalgia trip and getting back into playing during the past 2 months are making me remember why I love this game.

2. I've mostly taken a step back from worrying about how the game is balanced, and worrying about this change or that change. I just want to play the game with my friends and get involved in the community events for fun while we are all still here.

Yes it could be a "better" game, but it is still one of my favourites and I'm not going to complain massively about a little thing (IMO) here and there that has had such a massive impact on my life in its imperfect state. Any improvement is a blessing, but even if it doesn't change, I'll still play and have a good time.

Life is precious guys, share the love :kiss:


:thumb:

Also still having fun. Image

Praying someday for a form of draft pick, but eh.

Also, I guess more communication would be real frickin' neato.

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