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 Post subject: Re: I feel this game needs an actual ranked or competitive m
 Post Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2017 1:54 pm 
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allstarsniper32 wrote:
And also, whatever number of nauts needed to be mastery gets decided, the number shouldn't change just because more nauts come out. That's why I feel a good number is 12-15. That's about half the nauts, but as more nauts come out, it won't be half the nauts anymore.

The number of around 12 nauts is okay but you need to notice how hard unlocking new characters currently is for any f2p player. It would take months.

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 Post subject: Re: I feel this game needs an actual ranked or competitive m
 Post Posted: Sun Jul 02, 2017 3:07 am 
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rybakowsky wrote:
allstarsniper32 wrote:
And also, whatever number of nauts needed to be mastery gets decided, the number shouldn't change just because more nauts come out. That's why I feel a good number is 12-15. That's about half the nauts, but as more nauts come out, it won't be half the nauts anymore.

The number of around 12 nauts is okay but you need to notice how hard unlocking new characters currently is for any f2p player. It would take months.

But there's really nothing wrong with that because there is the option to just buy all the nauts.

Using Smite as the example again, it's also F2P and you have to have profile rank 30 AND master I think 12 gods to be able to play ranked. Unlocking gods takes a long time in that as well but it also has the option to buy all the gods.

I don't think it's a bad thing because I feel if someone doesn't want to play seriously, they won't care about unlocking all the characters. Either from unlocking them with points or just buying the nauts pack. And I bet they also won't care to play a ranked mode.


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 Post subject: Re: I feel this game needs an actual ranked or competitive m
 Post Posted: Sun Jul 02, 2017 4:21 am 
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allstarsniper32 wrote:
Dr. Cheesesteak wrote:
allstarsniper32 wrote:
I think nauts would do good with what Smite does though. That is, you have to "master" "X amount of characters" before you can play the ranked mode.
But you seem to be correlating "time played" with "skill". Something I'm not a fan of and is quite fallacious anyway.

While I agree that time =/= skill in an absolute sense, it at least means someone put time into the game to learn it.

I mean, if you take two players, one with 50 hours played and one with 1000 hours played, which would you assume initially to be better?

I know that someone with 1000+ hours can still be not that great at the game though.

Yeah, to truly answer your question, I place almost 0 value on hours played. I get how one would. And I used to and probably sometimes still make the instinctual mistake to assume there is some connection between hours played and skill.

But a point my friend, who's really into the competitive scene in games, made was that while time may not equal skill, it does reflect effort or investment and that is something that should at least be considered as them "taking it more serious" to be competitive.

allstarsniper32 wrote:
Dr. Cheesesteak wrote:
From my experiences (tho limited in MOBAs and their respective ranking/competitive systems), having a hard line ranking system just doesn't work w/ matchmaking. Nor should it. I mean, if you're personal goal is to play competitively and climb the ranks, why on earth would you want to group w/ random strangers?

The goal of matchmaking is to make each match a close match in terms of skill.

As far as grouping with strangers, in a ranked or competitive mode, the people you're randomly paired with are more likely to be more serious about winning and picking a team comp rather than just playing whatever they want or playing something they've never played before. It's not always true, but is more likely.

Yeah, to be honest, I'm just kinda jaded from Overwatch. It has a ton of trolls, "throwers", etc, even in Comp. They become nearly non-existent at higher tiers, at least in my limited experience in high tier, but even high tier Comp in OW can lead to steamrolls and sometimes that's just due to players simply not being that good, despite their placement (granted, in OW, you can get to high tier in probably 10-15 hours of actual gameplay...probably less).

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 Post subject: Re: I feel this game needs an actual ranked or competitive m
 Post Posted: Sun Jul 02, 2017 10:12 am 
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Dr. Cheesesteak wrote:
But a point my friend, who's really into the competitive scene in games, made was that while time may not equal skill, it does reflect effort or investment and that is something that should at least be considered as them "taking it more serious" to be competitive.

And this is all I was really trying to say. And I think I did say that in at least one of my posts.

allstarsniper32 wrote:
While I agree that time =/= skill in an absolute sense, it at least means someone put time into the game to learn it.

There it was! lol

Dr. Cheesesteak wrote:
Yeah, to be honest, I'm just kinda jaded from Overwatch. It has a ton of trolls, "throwers", etc, even in Comp. They become nearly non-existent at higher tiers, at least in my limited experience in high tier, but even high tier Comp in OW can lead to steamrolls and sometimes that's just due to players simply not being that good, despite their placement (granted, in OW, you can get to high tier in probably 10-15 hours of actual gameplay...probably less).

The problem with Overwatch is that you can start playing comp without having to learn varying heroes. As long as you get your profile to level (was it 25?), you can start queuing in comp. I wish Overwatch would have an individual hero level that you had to level x amount of heroes to be able to play comp. That would eliminate one tricks.

Also, I'm stuck in bronze cause I can't always get good team mates XD I swear people in bronze are stuck 4 or more metas in the past...But I feel that's proof that other team based games have their matchmaking problems.


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 Post subject: Re: I feel this game needs an actual ranked or competitive m
 Post Posted: Sun Jul 02, 2017 5:54 pm 
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allstarsniper32 wrote:
Dr. Cheesesteak wrote:
But a point my friend, who's really into the competitive scene in games, made was that while time may not equal skill, it does reflect effort or investment and that is something that should at least be considered as them "taking it more serious" to be competitive.

And this is all I was really trying to say. And I think I did say that in at least one of my posts.

Yeah, I suppose you did, but just seemed less explicit for me to actually realize lol. :thumb:

allstarsniper32 wrote:
The problem with Overwatch is that you can start playing comp without having to learn varying heroes. As long as you get your profile to level (was it 25?), you can start queuing in comp. I wish Overwatch would have an individual hero level that you had to level x amount of heroes to be able to play comp. That would eliminate one tricks.

Also, I'm stuck in bronze cause I can't always get good team mates XD I swear people in bronze are stuck 4 or more metas in the past...But I feel that's proof that other team based games have their matchmaking problems.

It was the news of the OW Open Division requiring Master rank that really made me realize how bad the Comp system was. I mean, I always knew it was in my limited experience (never played til Season 4, where I got Gold, but did play in Diamond-Master tier matches w/ my friend). But this most recent season, I've been stuck in Silver and it really opened my eyes to how hard it is to get out of mud w/o a carry or a stack/premade completely on the same page.

This probably sounds ridiculous, but it opened my eyes so much, I sincerely felt like I finally understood what it's like to be raised and living in the ghetto or in any community that seems to be self-perpetually bad and is extremely difficult to escape. I compared my friend, who kept defending OW Open Div by saying things like "keep trying! Anyone can get out of low-tier!", to the 1% or a rich white guy who just doesn't understand what it's like to be a minority brought up in a crappy community. :lolstar:

(I'm a half-white, half-Mexican male, btw...but look white and live in a very liberal city, which I consider myself as moderate. My Mexican side are all pretty white-washed, married white, have/had successful careers, etc. So I've always kind of had a rose-tinted view on minorities' capabilities to be successful in the US. But now, thanks to OW, I know how hard it truly can be lol)

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 Post subject: Re: I feel this game needs an actual ranked or competitive m
 Post Posted: Mon Jul 03, 2017 7:58 am 
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I think this topic has drifted too much towards the whole "players that play more tend to be better" factoidlet.

I don't see any reason to think that the current system is anything but a competitive mode.

Why isn't there a 3v3 draft ladder though...

They could make it a separate queue on the main menu and let it push you out into the normal queue if there are a lack of teams online - nothing lost and a lot won.


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 Post subject: Re: I feel this game needs an actual ranked or competitive m
 Post Posted: Mon Jul 03, 2017 11:26 am 
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Dr. Cheesesteak wrote:
It was the news of the OW Open Division requiring Master rank that really made me realize how bad the Comp system was. I mean, I always knew it was in my limited experience (never played til Season 4, where I got Gold, but did play in Diamond-Master tier matches w/ my friend). But this most recent season, I've been stuck in Silver and it really opened my eyes to how hard it is to get out of mud w/o a carry or a stack/premade completely on the same page.

On Overwatch, When I first did my placements I was like 5 points below Gold ranking. I had a string of bad games. Which drifted me lower. Then, during the Chinese New Year event, I had only losses for too long and that bumped me way down to mid bronze. It took me all of season 4 to get back into Silver, then in the current season, I got placed in bronze after my placements. Even though I won more than I lost during those matches.

It's frustrating when you keep getting people in your matches that don't know what they're doing and usually those players have lower hours played. People who have more hours know what they're doing but tend to more play characters that they can't make a impact with.

This leads into nauts because people with lower hours, but somehow made it to league 3-2 don't have a good grasp of what needs to be done in various situations.

Which leads me to this,

omnimpotent wrote:
I think this topic has drifted too much towards the whole "players that play more tend to be better" factoidlet.

I don't see any reason to think that the current system is anything but a competitive mode.

For the first point, I know that people who have tons of hours in the game can still not be good. In fact, I had a match earlier with a player who had 600+ hours and never stuck with the team during the team fights. They would leave us and go to the other lane to take care of droids while that made the fight 2v3.

On the second point. It's not a competitive mode because you install nauts, load it up, and click on player vs player match. That's not competitive, that's more like quickplay.

What you said about a 3v3 draft mode would most likely also be considered a competitive mode. Because the people playing it are more likely to be in a serious mindset than someone playing quickplay.


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 Post subject: Re: I feel this game needs an actual ranked or competitive m
 Post Posted: Mon Jul 03, 2017 4:26 pm 
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allstarsniper32 wrote:
In fact, I had a match earlier with a player who had 600+ hours and never stuck with the team during the team fights. They would leave us and go to the other lane to take care of droids while that made the fight 2v3.

curious, I saw this mentioned in another thread i think, how frequent do you think other players check their teammates' steam ID's to see hours played? Is it just limited to the high tier leagues you think? I'm in League 6 and I've had maybe just 1 or 2 players seem to take it super serious. I myself have once even suggested tactics on the fly once (which were seemingly ignored lol).

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 Post subject: Re: I feel this game needs an actual ranked or competitive m
 Post Posted: Mon Jul 03, 2017 5:38 pm 
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Dr. Cheesesteak wrote:
allstarsniper32 wrote:
In fact, I had a match earlier with a player who had 600+ hours and never stuck with the team during the team fights. They would leave us and go to the other lane to take care of droids while that made the fight 2v3.

curious, I saw this mentioned in another thread i think, how frequent do you think other players check their teammates' steam ID's to see hours played? Is it just limited to the high tier leagues you think? I'm in League 6 and I've had maybe just 1 or 2 players seem to take it super serious. I myself have once even suggested tactics on the fly once (which were seemingly ignored lol).

L2/3, I've never checked a player's steam profile, and maybe once or twice a year will I check Nautsrankings on someone. But that's because Awesomenauts bogs down my computer so much that I can't load those things in less than two minutes per page.

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 Post subject: Re: I feel this game needs an actual ranked or competitive m
 Post Posted: Mon Jul 03, 2017 5:41 pm 
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https://www.awesomenauts.com/forum/view ... =6&t=48918

This has been suggested for ages now, it's been brought up every 3 months. If the matchmaking improved, it wouldn't be an issue anyways so I'm just linking this topic for everyone to read instead since it contains all the argumentation.

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