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 Post subject: Re: Make a draft mode already
 Post Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2017 1:57 am 
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im typing something like "here's an example of a draft mode that wont take more than a minute and doesnt require bans for it to improve the status quo"

and got 2 replies that are like "OH BUT DRAFTS TAKE 5 MINUTES THATS TOO LONG AND PEOPLE JUST WANNA PLAYWHOEVER THEY DONT WANNA BE STRESSED ABOUT BANS"

can like we at least read my op before dismissing drafts, pls

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 Post subject: Re: Make a draft mode already
 Post Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2017 2:29 am 
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Fine, I'll tell you from a different perspective.

Drafts don't work without bans because the games 3v3. Getting your first pick hardcountered out of the game right off the bat isn't a fun or interesting game for anyone involved. You instantly lose the game if that happens and it creates so much pressure on how RNG rolls your first pick and how crucial that player is. You cannot fight this game 2v3 most of the time, it doesn't work.

Non-ban draft works in other mobas because first picks are often expendable non-item dependent supports. They don't carry games, they just have to be there to be utility disable and spells.

There's so much pressure on each member to correctly pick a character that can't be countered/hard counters the enemy picks that so few players can actively do it in a game like this. Learning each character's individual movement options and proper build order as well as counter-picking build order is a monumental task not other mobas have to deal with because of how simple a character is in most mobas.

Every pick in this game is important, you already argued having a blind counterpick is infuriating, imagine being first pick and getting purposely counterpicked every single game.

MrPillow wrote:
Also, I'm going to go ahead and toss this out here in the OP, I challenge every single person who disagrees with drafts to link a single draft from nautsdrafter.com that they've been a part of. Everytime this topic comes up, all the people who disagree, correct me if I'm mistaken, either have literally never tried drafting or haven't in years.


No.

I don't need to do a nautsdraft to disagree with you in any regard, and it's honestly that elitist attitude that deters players from being either competitive or interested in it at all, myself included.

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 Post subject: Re: Make a draft mode already
 Post Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2017 2:40 am 
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also :

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MUs still matter, and even more than any other MOBAs because of the small cast.

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 Post subject: Re: Make a draft mode already
 Post Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2017 2:43 am 
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_Eagleeye wrote:
Another fact that destroys the idea of drafts in game is the fact that people need to buy their nauts. If all of the nauts that I own are banned or already chosen, and then, if all of the "free rotation" nauts I have access too are bad for the matchup I am facing, what options do I have in such a case? Only bad ones.


this is *the* reason not to do a draft. not everyone has access to the full roster. i mean, they could make the weekly rotation be like 6 nauts which might help mitigate this a bit.

MrPillowTheGreat wrote:
RNG


i get what you're saying here, but the variety the current system allows for is actually fun for some people. as soon as you add a draft, you're probably going to see way less diversity in team comps. adding the map preview had this effect as well (i might be imagining this, but i feel you're way more likely to see clunks on aiguillon, derpls on starstorm, etc). blandsomenauts assemble!

anyways...i could take it or leave it. as long as there's no ban phase in pub games, i could go either way.


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 Post subject: Re: Make a draft mode already
 Post Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2017 3:47 am 
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MrPillowTheGreat wrote:
can like we at least read my op before dismissing drafts, pls

If you want people to read it, make it shorter. That's called Reader-Centric Writing.

It's not the reader's obligation to spend their time on your writing. It's your obligation as the content creator to communicate your point to them in a way that either maintains their interest, or communicates the point quickly enough that they don't lose interest.

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 Post subject: Re: Make a draft mode already
 Post Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2017 9:22 am 
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Xelrog wrote:
MrPillowTheGreat wrote:
can like we at least read my op before dismissing drafts, pls

If you want people to read it, make it shorter. That's called Reader-Centric Writing.

It's not the reader's obligation to spend their time on your writing. It's your obligation as the content creator to communicate your point to them in a way that either maintains their interest, or communicates the point quickly enough that they don't lose interest.


This is a forum :derp: the whole point is discussion; if you decide to skip parts of a post for various reasons, you're just being mis-informed and not contributing to said discussion in a complete manner.

Agreeing with robo as well, I really would like to avoid doing a draft for pubs; not everyone has access to all 'nauts, and it doesn't suit the style whatsoever. I would be really sad to see it changed into something like that, I enjoy playing certain characters; I don't play pubs going "what's a good counterpick to the enemy team", because I play them to have fun and experience the variety of the cast. I think that type of competitive mindset should stay in its respective place, and it does just fine there :ayla: .

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 Post subject: Re: Make a draft mode already
 Post Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2017 10:37 am 
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robochase6000 wrote:
_Eagleeye wrote:
Another fact that destroys the idea of drafts in game is the fact that people need to buy their nauts. If all of the nauts that I own are banned or already chosen, and then, if all of the "free rotation" nauts I have access too are bad for the matchup I am facing, what options do I have in such a case? Only bad ones.


this is *the* reason not to do a draft. not everyone has access to the full roster. i mean, they could make the weekly rotation be like 6 nauts which might help mitigate this a bit.

This reason only really matters for a quickplay mode like what is only available in nauts right now. This is why, for a draft pick, it would have to be a separate queue. Which is something that would be used in the ranked mode that I would want to put in nauts that I made a topic about.


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 Post subject: Re: Make a draft mode already
 Post Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2017 1:21 pm 
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Say yes to draft in competetive, say not to draft in casual. Forcing brand new players to draft is a terrible idea because it causes stress and rises toxicity because said players have no idea who counters who.

Protips how to implement draft:
>make a separate ranked queue
>stop crying that the playerbase is too small, it got few times bigger since f2p relase
>make the queue time 2x longer than casual queue so people have bigger chance to get a proper matchup (longer que times are understandable in ranked mode)
>implement draft system as simple as this proposed by Pillow in ranked mode
>profit

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 Post subject: Re: Make a draft mode already
 Post Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2017 1:32 pm 
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rybakowsky wrote:
>make a separate ranked queue
>stop crying that the playerbase is too small, it got few times bigger since f2p relase


Even in huge games like Call of Duty adding extra playlists and splitting matchmaking for say, DLC, causes problems with splitting the playerbase and matchmaking. The playerbase hasn't got that much bigger (http://steamcharts.com/app/204300) and it is trending downward still after the F2P update peak.

Adding a ranked mode will make matchmaking worse for everyone. The matchups will be straight up worse and take longer to find in either queue. In an ideal world, it would be a 50/50 split for both queues but that just isn't going to happen and one queue will have a much worse time. It could go either way with nauts, F2P players could make the casual queue dominate since it isn't feasible for them to draft nauts with their limited selection or nauts has a very veteran heavy playerbase causing ranked mode to be more popular.

A draft mode is really great idea but it does not make sense for the game in its current state. I think a draft mode makes most sense in private match where it will scratch the itch for most players who want it making scrims and tournaments easier.


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 Post subject: Re: Make a draft mode already
 Post Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2017 5:59 pm 
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Nekomian wrote:
Xelrog wrote:
MrPillowTheGreat wrote:
can like we at least read my op before dismissing drafts, pls

If you want people to read it, make it shorter. That's called Reader-Centric Writing.

It's not the reader's obligation to spend their time on your writing. It's your obligation as the content creator to communicate your point to them in a way that either maintains their interest, or communicates the point quickly enough that they don't lose interest.


This is a forum

...which people come to voluntarily for leisure purposes. Because they enjoy talking to others. If you're not enjoying your time here, there's no reason to be here, and if your post isn't maintaining someone's interest, they're not enjoying reading it.

No one is under any obligation to read anything you write, nor are you under any obligation to read anything they write. If you're the one trying to make a point, and to make change happen, then it's on you to present the information in a way that's going to accomplish that. If you fail to maintain interest, then you have failed in your campaign to invoke change, and that's all on you.

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