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 Post subject: Illusion Of Choice
 Post Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 9:25 am 
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........................................................ Deadlift


Damage Per Second
-Base Iron Slam, Attack speed 100
-Graviton Dumbbells, Attack speed 9 (Two Stages; 9%, 18%)


Attack Speed
-Iron Slam
Base 1.7 punches per second
-Graviton Dumbbells
Fully Upgraded 2.0 punches per second


Deadlift, in hand to hand combat suffers with one of the smallest reaches in the game exacerbated by not only his limited AA horizontal attacks but having one arm shorter than the other, and thee idea that Deadlift has one of the slowest walk speeds only makes things worse when you start using your AA cause now, Deadlift like some of thee other nauts in the cast is put at a disadvantage while holding down AA, HIS MAIN DAMAGE OUTPUT, but it doesn't end there...

Let's say, in your most recent game you felt the edginess in picking up Attack Speed on Iron Slam which is Graviton Dumbbells and you upgraded it fully in order to receive any reward for picking this upgrade, you would have to throw 11 punches. Now, since I'm such a nice guy I've already gone and done the math and measured how many punches it takes to throw 2 punches in one second and you guessed it, once fully upgraded at 2.0 it's 2 punches!...
Okay, so this is where it gets sticky, doubling the punches to 22. It's hard to believe, that it takes 22 punches in 11 to 12 seconds, That's Right. Seriously. to see "potential" return.

OUTSTANDING...

Alright, I'm sure by now you all aware there are many things in this game that become quite easy to miss but, for the players that choose to play this way, this added stress in choice might create balance where the "illusion of choice" might fall flat. Nevertheless, what might read as a higher difficulty for some might be closer to added depth for others.

-So just to recap, picking up Graviton Dumbbells and upgrading from base AA at 1.7 to 2.0 you would have to throw 11 punches in 6 seconds to receive ANY benefit.

There needs to be a substantial buff to his AA speed or a change to this upgrade like...
Range on punches similar to how Skol has on his AA.
To even complete with this row.
Or...
Or...
Replace it with,
Directional Punch, while buffing his AA DPS to an even 2.0 punches per second


Last edited by silascrow on Wed Sep 20, 2017 1:49 pm, edited 6 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Illusion Of Choice
 Post Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 11:52 am 
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Increasing attack speed instead of damage makes using an auto attack easier for those whose aim is not good enough to repeatedly land slower, more powerful blows. On the flipside, it is a worse way to actually increase DPS because Bronco Yeast exists (albeit never used).

Deadlift does not have a 1.7 attack speed: he has 102 attack speed, resulting in 1.7 attacks/second. 1.7 attack speed would be slightly fewer than two attacks per minute.

Although his AA row is uninspired to say the least, and very uninspired to say a little more.

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 Post subject: Re: Illusion Of Choice
 Post Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 12:22 pm 
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Comedy gold

silascrow wrote:
Damage Per Second
-Base Iron Slam
-Graviton Dumbbells (Two Stages; 9%, 18%)

silascrow wrote:
Now, since I'm such a nice guy I've already gone and done the math

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 Post subject: Re: Illusion Of Choice
 Post Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 12:28 pm 
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The Lord Protector wrote:
Deadlift does not have a 1.7 attack speed: he has 102 attack speed, resulting in 1.7 attacks/second.

As per your rebuttal, Deadlift's attack speed at base is actually 100. Upgraded 118.
I'm just going off what it reads on his description in game, listed as 1.7...

Now, this notion of "making it easier" to land combos as you say is a poor excuse, cause it just isn't, it's a placebo effect. Unless both parties are at a point standing in one spot for 12 seconds to land the majority of 22 punches, you're not going to have any noticeable difference, which I might also add provides no unity between upgrades at this current point on his Graviton Dumbbells.

And...
what the hell is Bronco Yeast?!?!


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 Post subject: Re: Illusion Of Choice
 Post Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 12:33 pm 
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silascrow wrote:
And...
what the hell is Bronco Yeast?!?!

lmao

On topic:
  • Sweatarm Band? :huh:
  • Tentative Balance Changes for next patch say that DL is getting a base AS buff with a base damage nerf to compensate. This will technically make Dumbells more valuable, I guess?

Also this thread should be in balance.

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 Post subject: Re: Illusion Of Choice
 Post Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 12:55 pm 
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GuyBrush wrote:
Tentative Balance Changes for next patch say that DL is getting a base AS buff with a base damage nerf to compensate. This will technically make Dumbells more valuable, I guess?

apparently you haven´t been paying enough attention, that change isn´t going through

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 Post subject: Re: Illusion Of Choice
 Post Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 1:11 pm 
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GuyBrush wrote:
[*]Tentative Balance Changes for next patch say that DL is getting a base AS buff with a base damage nerf to compensate. This will technically make Dumbells more valuable, I guess?


Even if Joost or some person on there team used a calculator or common logic.
It would defeat the purpose.
They would have to raise his base attack speed on Iron Slam and Graviton Dumbbells to substantial number to compensate, which i'm guessing would cause great tension in the I hate math club...
Getting 1 extra combo in 6 seconds to an already slow, short armed, horizontal attacking character which receives a penalty well using his main damage output is well. A complete joke.


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 Post subject: Re: Illusion Of Choice
 Post Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 1:22 pm 
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CraftedNightmare wrote:
GuyBrush wrote:
Tentative Balance Changes for next patch say that DL is getting a base AS buff with a base damage nerf to compensate. This will technically make Dumbells more valuable, I guess?

apparently you haven´t been paying enough attention, that change isn´t going through

Even if it were, it wouldn't make dumbbells any better or worse.

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 Post subject: Re: Illusion Of Choice
 Post Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 1:52 pm 
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I don't see reason why you complain about attack speed upgrade while you build deadlift like this :table:

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 Post subject: Re: Illusion Of Choice
 Post Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 1:54 pm 
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silascrow wrote:
what the hell is Bronco Yeast?!?!

95% of balance discussions here would be so much more fruitful if people actually corroborated what they know with the wiki's information instead of claiming things randomly.

Attack speed is the measurement of how many attacks can be completed within one minute—60 seconds—so, if Deadlift can execute 1.7 attacks per second, multiply that by sixty to get his attack speed value.

1.7 x 60 = 102, not 100. I have no idea where you are getting 100 from, but I suppose this demonstrates my first point to an extent.

Might I also point out that attack speed is actually a much more powerful increase than attack damage, because it multiplies the latter instead of increasing it additively.

+20% damage and +15% damage stack simply to form +35% damage, but +20% damage and +15% attack speed result in a DPS increase of +38%, as attack speed does not stack with damage linearly.

Of course, this makes no difference when it is an either/or situation, as it is with Deadlift, but is is not so simple as some people would believe.

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