Register    Login    Forum    Search    FAQ Awesomenauts



Post new topic Reply to topic Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

Author Message
 Post subject: Re: An incentive to be nice.
 Post Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 8:20 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Dec 20, 2015 10:54 pm
Posts: 1663
Location: Côte D'azur
All these placebo effects when you can just solve 50% of the toxicity with a more accurate MM and galactron not giving anyone insane amount of rating.

I swear, nauts is literally the only game where boosting is even more problematic than League's boosting.

(Or you know, disabling chat help a ton)

_________________
Steam :raehands:

Discord français d'awesomenauts

Dominik305 wrote:
people who only play meta in any game should be gunned down at the street and skinned alive


CraftedNightmare wrote:
i'm trying to enjoy this *
Doppelganger wrote:
where's my popcorn bag


_olaffff wrote:


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: An incentive to be nice.
 Post Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 10:56 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2014 7:35 pm
Posts: 803
Location: Grenoble, France
Doppelganger wrote:
All these placebo effects when you can just solve 50% of the toxicity with a more accurate MM and galactron not giving anyone insane amount of rating.

What does it have to do with toxicity?

There is absolutely no excuse for being toxic. If someone is toxic with someone else, that's his responsibility. It's too easy to say "If MM was better I wouldn't be toxic".

"I'm so sorry that I'm telling you to kill yourself.. if I hadn't been matched with you I wouldn't have" --> I guess this kind of sentence doesn't feel any wrong to you?

What the hell is wrong with you people, I swear..

_________________
Admin of the Rollcage steam group
GRIP - Intense futuristic combat racer


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: An incentive to be nice.
 Post Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 11:37 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Dec 20, 2015 10:54 pm
Posts: 1663
Location: Côte D'azur
potterman28wxcv wrote:
Doppelganger wrote:
All these placebo effects when you can just solve 50% of the toxicity with a more accurate MM and galactron not giving anyone insane amount of rating.

What does it have to do with toxicity?

There is absolutely no excuse for being toxic. If someone is toxic with someone else, that's his responsibility. It's too easy to say "If MM was better I wouldn't be toxic".

"I'm so sorry that I'm telling you to kill yourself.. if I hadn't been matched with you I wouldn't have" --> I guess this kind of sentence doesn't feel any wrong to you?

What the hell is wrong with you people, I swear..


33% of the toxicity come from balancing.
33% of the toxicity come from garbage matchmaking.
33% of the toxicity are inherently correlated to people themselves.

You can't get rid of the toxicity entirely, but you can lower the variables that increase it.

_________________
Steam :raehands:

Discord français d'awesomenauts

Dominik305 wrote:
people who only play meta in any game should be gunned down at the street and skinned alive


CraftedNightmare wrote:
i'm trying to enjoy this *
Doppelganger wrote:
where's my popcorn bag


_olaffff wrote:


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: An incentive to be nice.
 Post Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 1:39 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 28, 2015 10:24 am
Posts: 1238
Location: In the fantastical realm of Fan-Made Creations—please do not tap on the glass: it startles us.
Some people are not as good at accepting defeat as you might think—in these situations, they become aggressive. Given that tracing what was said in a game to the actual person who said it constitutes more effort than the overwhelming majority of people are willing to commit, you can effectively get away with it*.

This is one of the inherent characteristics of the Internet, and there is no amount of regulation, fire, nor brimstone going to change that.

Of course, there are people that are toxic simply for toxicity's sake. These people are even harder to regulate than the above.

* Note please that it is still possible for potential employers to trace and can, for those of you this applies to, affect said employment prospects in severe cases. Try not to be dumb online.

_________________
Say no to SAM wrote:
Give this guy a duck for making such a good job with this thread

Nekomian wrote:
Give this guy a duck lololol

NekiCoule wrote:
...I'm not trying to seduce you or any kind of propaganda for your great wisdom I swear I'm not...


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: An incentive to be nice.
 Post Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 11:27 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Nov 15, 2015 7:37 am
Posts: 315
Doppelganger wrote:
there's one good way to be nice to people.

Unbind chat key.
Remove all-chat and team-chat.
Congrats

I like this. I never understood why any PvP game would have an all-chat during the match. I remember them talking about removing or keeping all-chat and it was decided to keep all-chat. I feel like that's a mistake. Not just for nauts but other games that have it as well. I mean, I played Overwatch and all-chat on that was terrible too. There does need to be team-chat, but as we all know, people abuse that and are toxic to their own team mates.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: An incentive to be nice.
 Post Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 2:08 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 13, 2013 6:49 pm
Posts: 2289
Location: Tomorrowland
allstarsniper32 wrote:
Doppelganger wrote:
there's one good way to be nice to people.

Unbind chat key.
Remove all-chat and team-chat.
Congrats

I like this. I never understood why any PvP game would have an all-chat during the match. I remember them talking about removing or keeping all-chat and it was decided to keep all-chat. I feel like that's a mistake. Not just for nauts but other games that have it as well. I mean, I played Overwatch and all-chat on that was terrible too. There does need to be team-chat, but as we all know, people abuse that and are toxic to their own team mates.


I think I can answer that.


Now, to me, I see happiness as a form of energy. If you've studied even the littlest bit of physics, you know that energy can't be created or destroyed.

This means it needs to come from somewhere and disappear to somewhere.
And for a lot of people, this is in social interactions.
Yes, people are toxic, but honestly, it makes the game feel more alive tbh.
I've kinda come to accept that this is how PvP games are and how they always will be.

I've weighed my experience of games where there is and isn't communication

Nauts:
4310 hours; has global chat
Dota:
1719 hours; has global chat
Heroes of the Storm:
660 hours; no global chat
League:
147 hours; global chat turned off
Smite:
63 hours; global chat turned off (or maybe it has none? never checked)

I spent significantly lower amount of time in the games without global chat than games with global chat.

Obviously it's not proof, but my enjoyment of the game goes down when the interactions go down.

Yes people can be *, but honestly I'd rather deal with the toxicity of other people than bulk up my own toxicity.
And I feel like most people would agree.


Toxicity isn't caused by the game itself, it's caused by interactions. It's unfixable.
Yes, you can turn off global chat. Yes it will reduce toxicity directly.
But at a certain point in life you realise there's never a perfect solution for anything, just a set of compromises and compensations. Forcefully reducing toxicity will increase the frustration of people somewhere else.

Real life example:
President Harding banned alcohol consumption in 1920 because he saw that Alcohol was the root of a lot of chaos and toxicity in the united states.
Alcohol consumption went down, toxicity amplified however and organised crime boomed. It was clear that banning alcohol was not the solution, so it was repealed 13 years later.


I feel like it's the same thing for removing all chat. I'd call it very naive to think that we, as a community, can completely get rid of toxicity. It's against human nature.
It's like putting a curtain in front of all the people who are misbehaving and say that doing that fixed the problem.


tl;dr toxicity is therapeutic in a way and getting rid of it will frustrate people even more

This doesn't mean I support people bullying others to the point of causing personal hatred or leaving the game.


Nothing against the idea itself btw, I think it'd be cool to have "good guy credits"

_________________
My concise guide to balancing
Cynderp wrote:
The year is 20XX. Everyone can play Awesomenauts to niki levels of perfection. All gameplay has been deemed irrelevant and matches are decided by a game of Roflnauts. All new metas are based on Roflnauts DMs.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: An incentive to be nice.
 Post Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 3:19 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2014 8:13 pm
Posts: 3092
Location: In AR where Moba games don't exist
@Boy_Skylark I imagine your first post is a reply directed to my first post.

Yes, I do agree thinking that is also a core of the problem, but I'm just stating the facts, not trying to play "devil's advocate" or anything like that.

I've lately played few different Moba/dota styled games before going back to Awesomenauts on 4.4 update and I must say they all have been different (the only big one left is Dota 2, but that is going to change soon I feel).

I've said you can't do anything about it, is because it's the truth. The only 100% effective way of making community "nicer" is by changing yourself. "We're not so bad in comparison" is because as much as I've seen some jerks play this game in my years of playing, they still didn't come close to few games of Heroes of the Storm on HL (both preseason and after being placed high).

Quote:
Honor systems and growing punishments for poor manners help and would be a nice starting point.


We basically already have both. Ducks and bans. Duck badges for people with bad manners and bans for people who were nice and did something for the community.

No, I didn't get these two mixed up. MrPillow can confirm.

Also we're still in the middle of doing the whole 'You taunt, you're toxic'? Really? You can make the exact same argument in favor of taunts. "Got a nice escape or play? Make sure to hit that taunt button!"

I would love to say more than "gg" or "wp"... if only the game allowed me to type more after the match end and typing before the game ends can end up in close match being throwed.


And here's also the main thing that really irks me about your posts. What do YOU even consider flaming? Or being toxic? Or just not being nice? People play this game as a timewaster, to win, to do collaborations with friends, become better at the game or other reasons... you don't go playing the game to keep talking how amazing everybody is and ignoring how terrible their build is just so they will cost you another game.


And before you will say anything, no, I'm not against a medal system or anything like that, just let me repeat that:

A) Such system wouldn't make most of the toxic players change how they behave
B) Most of the players that were nice already wouldn't change their behaviour as well
C) Similar system is implemented in other games like Hots and it also rarely does anything
D) It's another thing added to a pile of things that could be added to nauts, but there are much more important things that need to be adressed or added right now
E) It will be abused or buggy as heck


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: An incentive to be nice.
 Post Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 10:31 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Nov 15, 2015 7:37 am
Posts: 315
Gameinsky wrote:
long post

Alright, so to counter your "time played" argument. I have 2 mobas that I play, Smite and Nauts. Nauts was the first moba I ever played and it has more hours than Smite because I started playing Smite when I already had 1200 hours into nauts. But now, I have 1300 hours in nauts and 930 in Smite. I don't play nauts all that often at all anymore cause if I want to play a moba I'd rather play Smite. And while not having all chat isn't the biggest factor in that, it is part of the factor. Same with Overwatch.

People being toxic in matches makes you feel like the game is alive? For me, and many others, it just ruins matches and makes people not want to play that game anymore. Which is why toxic players in matches is a problem in PvP games that game companies have to look at.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: An incentive to be nice.
 Post Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 11:07 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 13, 2013 6:49 pm
Posts: 2289
Location: Tomorrowland
allstarsniper32 wrote:
Gameinsky wrote:
long post

Alright, so to counter your "time played" argument. I have 2 mobas that I play, Smite and Nauts. Nauts was the first moba I ever played and it has more hours than Smite because I started playing Smite when I already had 1200 hours into nauts. But now, I have 1300 hours in nauts and 930 in Smite. I don't play nauts all that often at all anymore cause if I want to play a moba I'd rather play Smite. And while not having all chat isn't the biggest factor in that, it is part of the factor. Same with Overwatch.

People being toxic in matches makes you feel like the game is alive? For me, and many others, it just ruins matches and makes people not want to play that game anymore. Which is why toxic players in matches is a problem in PvP games that game companies have to look at.



I don't think you can put people into a single type.

It's pretty obvious there are people that prefer lack of toxicity completely and people who prefer it.
I think I fall somewhere in the middle.

Should just be an option imo.
"Automatically mute enemy chat"
and
"Automatically mute ally chat"
That way you give people the power to control the toxicity they get.

_________________
My concise guide to balancing
Cynderp wrote:
The year is 20XX. Everyone can play Awesomenauts to niki levels of perfection. All gameplay has been deemed irrelevant and matches are decided by a game of Roflnauts. All new metas are based on Roflnauts DMs.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: An incentive to be nice.
 Post Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 6:20 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Nov 15, 2015 7:37 am
Posts: 315
Gameinsky wrote:
It's pretty obvious there are people that prefer lack of toxicity completely and people who prefer it.

The only people who prefer toxicity in their matches are the ones that are themselves being the toxic player.

Even though you say you don't mind toxic players in your match, I doubt you've ever said "hmmm, I want toxicity in my match."


Top 
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
 
Post new topic Reply to topic Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next