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 Post subject: Re: Dumb Dumb Dumb
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 11:58 pm 
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DeezNauts wrote:
Just because it's from Blizzard doesn't mean you can shove it into a totally different game and it will work. And they didn't even ask a sole person from the community to look at it before they irreversibly coded it in (that's the kicker!), without an afterthought about the ramifications or consequences of such a change to their own game.

Several of us said this exact thing several times at several different levels of ALL CAPS.

DeezNauts wrote:
The whole reason for the XP-System was to make games shorter, but is it really worth destroying the soul of your game for an issue like that? Is it worth going over the heads of your whole community for that? Was it worth it?!

It was also to address the dominance of damage upgrades.

You can add that to yout list of "things the system failed to achieve".

DeezNauts wrote:
It also displays at the top of the screen every second of every game how much exactly you are behind in XP, and therefore strength.

Unless you are ~5 levels ahead of your enemies, you are not going to be any more powerful, realistically, than you would be without the XP System: especially not in a game where any combination of abilities can be instant death.

This is the absolute perfect demonstration of exactly how some people do not understand what impact the XP System does—or, rather, does not—have.

Not that it being a wasted system justifies its continuing existence, mind you.

DeezNauts wrote:
It's like I bought a really cool game years ago with a lot of promise, but now it's a game only suited for stupid people.

[citation needed]

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 Post subject: Re: Dumb Dumb Dumb
 Post Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 12:22 pm 
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This is another example of the fact that Ronimo devs and "designers" don't even play their own game. How can you be a freaking designer, if you don't write code and don't even play the game??! I feel like there are some people at Ronimo (without naming names) that are just there as "designers" that are literally the worst at the game itself. Like, if you can't even play the game, how are you supposed to design it?!! Simple basic logic that isn't grasped at Ronimo after 10+ years. :facepalm:

Everybody wants to be the "idea guy". Here's a hint, if you can't play and/or you aren't a dev, just shut your mouth.

Instead, Ronimo has like 10 artists, but only 3-4 devs, right? That disparity is insane.

Here's a harsh truth: In game development, it is true that nobody bears the same burden as the software team. An ugly game that works is still a game. A badly designed game that works is still a game. If it has beautiful artwork and a brilliant design, but it doesn't work, it isn't a game. It's a document and some drawings, but it isn't a game. Granted it's a much better game with great design and art, but it simply isn't a game without the coding.

Similarly, when they implemented the XP-System without the ability to roll back, or when they wrote the net-code with having to rewrite the whole game to change it, this is when you see the problems of having such a low amount of dev talent compared to the rest. There's either too few devs or they are managed poorly, but probably both. Couple that with one too many people who's job is "idea person" that are higher up for no reason and you get something like the XP-System.

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The game has been in a downward spiral since the XP-System and team levels. Even if the game was balanced, SoloQ is a torturous experience to submit yourself to anymore. Idk how blind the devs must be to not understand how these two things are related.


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 Post subject: Re: Dumb Dumb Dumb
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 4:56 pm 
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you can defend the XP system and the f2p change all you want, it won't make the playerbase bigger, bring all the arguments you want, and when you are done writing your essay be sure to visit Steam Charts and watch how only a niche playerbase sticks with the game

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 Post subject: Re: Dumb Dumb Dumb
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 11:02 pm 
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Here is step by step what the devs have to do for damage control, start NOW:

1. Revert the XP-System completely. This is a no-brainer. People despise things that don't make sense (or only make sense to corporate logicians). I think every developer should think long and hard on what is happening to EA's Battlefront 2 right now, and ask themselves "are we doing this?". What you did with the XP-System only made sense to you, but not to most people who played your game. You were just too proud to admit it. Don't be another EA.

Together with reversing the XP-System, the game needs to go back to flat numbers, if needed, because people simply want to know how much damage they make or take at any given point.

Why even show the damage points, if no one can see through the convoluted level multipliers and %'s ?

The whole damage system has been broken and doesn't make any sense since the XP-System. Again, something that only makes sense to the devs. I honestly haven't seen one discussion about how much damage something does in the past year because people seem to have just given up or you need a damn calculator every time you want to answer a simple question like "how much damage will I deal after this upgrade?" and "how much will this upgrade actually affect the game directly?". Through the lens of the XP-System, these questions simply aren't answerable in real time.

Most people would rather have something really simple that makes sense in a fast-paced environment, than something complex that doesn't. Wouldn't you agree, especially if your game is in a fast-paced environment!!!?

2. After step 1, promote the crap out of the game. No stone unturned! Who wouldn't want to try a free game, if they actually knew it was good? The biggest problem with f2p was that they released it in a state where the game wasn't actually good anymore, and it still isn't. No amount of new characters and skins will fix this. Make the game good BEFORE you do this step! It's pretty simple, and again, that order just makes sense.

3. (bonus step) Maybe it's just my own personal pet-peeve, but make a new trailer on Steam. The first thing people see and hear on the Steam page (and the first impression they get) is Ksenias voice, which is very annoying to most people who aren't yet accustomed to her. I have played Ksenia for a long time, but her voice still annoys the hell out of me.

I probably never would have touched this game, if that was the first impression I had gotten from this game.

I remember my first impression ever was a trailer where Ted was the first thing I saw in full action. Since Ted is amazing, I'm pretty sure that was the sole reason I got hooked on this game as quickly as I did. I don't think this third step is as necessary as the first two, but it definitely is a crucial point and it always makes sense to try for the best first impression you can get. Ksenia just can't be it, I'm sorry.

PS: Rename Awesomenauts to Nauts'. Everybody already call it that and word of mouth promotion would be much easier.

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The game has been in a downward spiral since the XP-System and team levels. Even if the game was balanced, SoloQ is a torturous experience to submit yourself to anymore. Idk how blind the devs must be to not understand how these two things are related.


Last edited by DeezNauts on Tue Nov 14, 2017 11:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Dumb Dumb Dumb
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 11:12 pm 
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DeezNauts wrote:
Here is step by step what the devs have to do for damage control, start NOW:

This is never a good way to get a point across.

"If I were Ronimo, I would..." sounds much nicer while allowing for far greater passive-aggressive undertones.

DeezNauts wrote:
1. Revert the XP-System completely...

Yeah.

DeezNauts wrote:
Together with reversing the XP-System, the game needs to go back to flat numbers, if needed, because people simply want to know how much damage they make or take at any given point.

I presume you mean flat damage upgrades instead of the percentages in the shop?

Yeah.

DeezNauts wrote:
The whole damage system has been broken and doesn't make any sense since the XP-System. Again, something that only makes sense to the devs. I honestly haven't seen one discussion about how much damage something does in the past year because people seem to have just given up or you need a damn calculator every time you want to answer a simple question like "how much damage will I deal after this upgrade?" and "how much will this upgrade actually affect the game directly?". Through the lens of the XP-System, these questions simply aren't answerable in real time.

To be honest, 25% of a number is not hard to estimate on the fly—24% is just that number minus an inconsequential bit. Precision is not what makes or breaks the game with instant kill burst.

Although I agree that it is unnecessary.

DeezNauts wrote:
Most people would rather have something really simple that makes sense in a fast-paced environment, than something complex that doesn't. Wouldn't you agree? Especially if your game is in a fast-paced environment!!!

Yeah—this is what made Awesomenauts popular, in my opinion.

DeezNauts wrote:
2. After step 1, promote the crap out of the game. No stone unturned! Who wouldn't want to try a free game, if they actually knew it was good? The biggest problem with f2p was that they released it in a state where the game wasn't actually good anymore, and it still isn't. No amount of new characters and skins will fix this. Make the game good BEFORE you do this step! It's pretty simple, and again, it just makes sense.

This will not make an ounce of difference—see F2P.

There is nothing left to advertise outside of a major new gamemode like MvM-lite.

I doubt that will become a reality soon.

DeezNauts wrote:
3. (bonus step) Maybe it's just my own personal pet-peeve, but make a new trailer on Steam. The first thing people see and hear on the Steam page (and the first impression they get) is Ksenias voice, which is very annoying to most people who aren't yet accustomed to her. I have played Ksenia for a long time, but her voice still annoys the hell out of me.

I guess.

DeezNauts wrote:
I remember my first impression ever was a trailer where Ted was the first thing I saw in full action. Since Ted is amazing, I'm pretty sure that was the sole reason I got hooked on this game as quickly as I did. I don't think this third step is necessary, but it does definitely make sense to try for the best first impression you can get. Ksenia just can't be it, I'm sorry.

I like Ksenia and I hate Ted.

People may have different opinions.

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 Post subject: Re: Dumb Dumb Dumb
 Post Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 3:55 am 
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The game is perfectly fine with the XP system. I joined the game after it, thus didnt play it before it, and was not bothered by it. Later I have tried the Xbox360 version wich is an old build without XP system, and the new game we have now is 100-0 better than that. All improve in my eyes. Exceot the past half a year, which have been weird. But game is still fun.


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 Post subject: Re: Dumb Dumb Dumb
 Post Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 4:15 pm 
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IsoKoala wrote:
The game is perfectly fine with the XP system. I joined the game after it, thus didnt play it before it, and was not bothered by it. Later I have tried the Xbox360 version wich is an old build without XP system, and the new game we have now is 100-0 better than that. All improve in my eyes. Exceot the past half a year, which have been weird. But game is still fun.

My god, just, no. Do you know when the most recent console patch happened? July 4, 2012. The XP System was introduced on Dec. 2, 2015. Over 3 years of patches. I can tell you with absolute certainty that the Steam version pre-XP System does not in anyway equal the console version. The game changed a lot in between.

Honestly, you should be ashamed for even comparing the two.

Shame!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SrDSqODtEFM

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 Post subject: Re: Dumb Dumb Dumb
 Post Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 8:49 pm 
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Lol the 360 version? Where you can only aim in 8 directions and you can't aim left and walk right because button binding does not exist? Where lonestar has mines with almost 1 minute self detonation? Yeah no... If you want to compare it to the ps4/Xbox one, it still wouldn't work. Console versions are a joke at this point we should just pretend they don't exist. I know ronimo acts this way.

People who want to revert xp just miss the good old days where you had a big number next to your user name that made you the scariest person in the lobby. Nothing like being a 32 when your teammates were around 17. Good times...

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 Post subject: Re: Dumb Dumb Dumb
 Post Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 9:56 pm 
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Aaron12906m wrote:
People who want to revert xp just miss the good old days where you had a big number next to your user name that made you the scariest person in the lobby. Nothing like being a 32 when your teammates were around 17. Good times...

Some of us want to revert the XP System because we feel it has made no difference that nerfing damage upgrades could not have done alone.

People are very quick to tell us that it made the game so immeasurably better, but they never seem to be able to provide a reason beyond that—aside from, of course, that damage upgrades are less mandatory.

Are they really less mandatory, or are they simply worse than they were before?

There is a big difference between those two options, as has been explained before.

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 Post subject: Re: Dumb Dumb Dumb
 Post Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:09 pm 
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To be 100% honest I do feel that I can put aside damage upgrades for a few minutes to take some other gimmicky/utility upgrades first because of the xp system. The first few minutes starts with farming so I see myself picking up pierce on froggy and rae or kb with coco to try to score some early plays. Back then for sure it was make sure you're ready to kill as soon as the match starts or else you fall behind.

Do did damage upgrades get nerfed or did the xp system succeed in not making them a necessity right away? I personally don't know the answer BUT, if the introduction of the xp system CAUSED damage upgrades to be nerfed, then why doesn't the credit go to the xp system anyway? Like an assist ya know?

To emphasize though, I'm not against removing the xp system. I just see both sides equally. It would be great to get a weekly brawl of some classic Nauts.

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