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 Post subject: Dumb Dumb Dumb
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 12:03 am 
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Here is the most basic explanation for how the XP-System completely ruined this game from day one (it wasn't because of the broken balance).

You used to be able to watch Nauts as a football game. Two teams that face each other, but the important part is that individual players can stand out and even carry whole games. This is the same as with football players like Messi, Ronaldo and Pelle in the past.

Now it's like watching the same football game, but with the glaring difference that if some players who are bad apples in that team start playing badly, the stars of that team magically also become worse (instead of more motivated and therefore better)...

WHO CAN TAKE THIS GAME SERIOUSLY LIKE THIS? HOW DOES THIS CONTRIBUTE TO BEING COMPETITIVE? IT'S A JOKE NOW!

Nobody can take it seriously anymore, if you think that online games such as this should be competitive. It's nothing but a joke that makes matchmaking the most important thing, not your individual skill. 90% of players soloq exclusively. You alienated all of them with the XP-System from day one. It can ONLY make sense, if you are in a damn premade. But even then, why? :tear:

EDIT (Something I wrote down more down below):
And to all the people who try to rationalize the XP-System: You obviously don't see how this is a gut issue and a bad game design issue. Maybe if you add up the numbers all day in your free time you'll come up that the XP-System is the same as before... But if you just look at it once, how does a team level with random strangers look to most people? It automatically says you are weaker for every random in every game that plays badly. It just feels like crap every single time. The game feels sluggish because you are constantly being dragged down directly with every XP point the enemy gains on your team. It also displays at the top of the screen every second of every game how much exactly you are behind in XP, and therefore strength. At least when an enemy killed one of your team before XP-System, they just gained solar, which only indirectly gave them upgrades through the shop. It felt like they were being rewarded from time to time, instead of you being punished constantly. Indirectly doesn't mean IN YOUR FACE "LOOK HOW MUCH EXACTLY THIS GUY DYING IS DRAGGING YOU DOWN!". Why do we need to be shown how much messing up really messes you up constantly? I already am fully aware that if I die, it puts me in a worse spot. I don't need a perpetual reassurance of it! How stupid does Ronimo actually think we are?! It's an insult to intelligence, absolutely nothing to do with being competitive and just a joke in general. How can anybody take a horribly designed game seriously, much less as a competitive game?

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The game has been in a downward spiral since the XP-System and team levels. Even if the game was balanced, SoloQ is a torturous experience to submit yourself to anymore. Idk how blind the devs must be to not understand how these two things are related.


Last edited by DeezNauts on Sat Nov 11, 2017 12:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Dumb Dumb Dumb
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 12:31 am 
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Oh man, you would looooove Heroes Of The Storm xD

While nauts copied it's xp-System there, it's not as bad because we still have solar. But I agree, team levels are extremly stupid.

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 Post subject: Re: Dumb Dumb Dumb
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 1:02 am 
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DeezNauts wrote:
Pelle


Pelé*

As a Brazilian, I feel like it is my civic duty to correct you there. :ugeek:
But yeah, while I don't think a xp system is necessarily bad in and of itself, a team-wide level does seems to defeat the purpose of a MOBA.

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Last edited by rpvarela on Tue Nov 07, 2017 9:47 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Dumb Dumb Dumb
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 1:23 am 
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the whole interface is a hots ripoff


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 Post subject: Re: Dumb Dumb Dumb
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 1:52 am 
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DeezNauts wrote:
You used to be able to watch Nauts as a football game.

[citation needed]

DeezNauts wrote:
(instead of more motivated and therefore better)...

[citation needed]

DeezNauts wrote:
90% of players soloq exclusively.

[citation needed]

DeezNauts wrote:
You alienated all of them with the XP-System from day one.

[citation needed]

Do I need to post that long-winded explanation as to why the XP System makes no difference to the game, and how it realistically never decides the outcome of matches, again?

rpvarela wrote:
...But yeah, while I don't think a xp system is necessarily bad in and of itself, a team-wide level does seems to defeat the purpose of a MOBA...

It works quite well in HotS.

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 Post subject: Re: Dumb Dumb Dumb
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 3:20 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Dumb Dumb Dumb
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 10:36 am 
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Before XP system no one complained when someone feeded the enemy team, right, sure

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 Post subject: Re: Dumb Dumb Dumb
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 3:17 pm 
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Pre XP system: One player carrying could win the whole game regardless of the enemy team's skill.
Post XP system: One player feeding could lose the whole game regardless of the team's skill.

I've stated my opinion before that the EXP system really needs to punish feeding players less. It's * that the EXP system considers a player with 9 deaths and 0 kills to be worth as much as a player with 9 kills and 0 deaths.

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 Post subject: Re: Dumb Dumb Dumb
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 4:30 pm 
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In Hots to begin with you have more players per team including a specific role/heroes made for soaking and grinding XP/Maps are made with that in mind as well and...

Wait why do I even bother making a point...

Oh how about this-

Basically Hots is like bread, Awesomenauts is lasagna and XP system is peanut butter.
Bread and peanutbutter go together well but when you mix lasagna with peanutbutter you've gone too far. I mean, I could eat lasagna and peanut butter together in theory, but not when peanut butter is implemented poorly.


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 Post subject: Re: Dumb Dumb Dumb
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 11:38 pm 
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Popcioslav wrote:
Basically Hots is like bread, Awesomenauts is lasagna and XP system is peanut butter. Bread and peanutbutter go together well but when you mix lasagna with peanutbutter you've gone too far. I mean, I could eat lasagna and peanut butter together in theory, but not when peanut butter is implemented poorly.

You hit the nail on the head with this metaphor. I don't believe Ronimo will ever admit how they f'd up their game with the XP-System by simply ripping it off of a then popular game, just because it was from Blizzard.

Just because it's from Blizzard doesn't mean you can shove it into a totally different game and it will work. And they didn't even ask a sole person from the community to look at it before they irreversibly coded it in (that's the kicker!), without an afterthought about the ramifications or consequences of such a change to their own game.

The whole reason for the XP-System was to make games shorter, but is it really worth destroying the soul of your game for an issue like that? Is it worth going over the heads of your whole community for that? Was it worth it?!

And to all the people who try to rationalize the XP-System: You obviously don't see how this is a gut issue and a bad game design issue. Maybe if you add up the numbers all day in your free time you'll come up that the XP-System is the same as before... But if you just look at it once, how does a team level with random strangers look to most people? It automatically says you are weaker for every random in every game that plays badly. It just feels like crap every single time. The game feels sluggish because you are constantly being dragged down directly with every XP point the enemy gains on your team. It also displays at the top of the screen every second of every game how much exactly you are behind in XP, and therefore strength. At least when an enemy killed one of your team before XP-System, they just gained solar, which only indirectly gave them upgrades through the shop. It felt like they were being rewarded from time to time, instead of you being punished constantly. Indirectly doesn't mean IN YOUR FACE "LOOK HOW MUCH EXACTLY THIS GUY DYING IS DRAGGING YOU DOWN!". Why do we need to be shown how much messing up really messes you up constantly? I already am fully aware that if I die, it puts me in a worse spot. I don't need a perpetual reassurance of it! How stupid does Ronimo actually think we are?! It's an insult to intelligence, absolutely nothing to do with being competitive and just a joke in general. How can anybody take a horribly designed game seriously, much less as a competitive game?

It's like I bought a really cool game years ago with a lot of promise, but now it's a game only suited for stupid people.

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The game has been in a downward spiral since the XP-System and team levels. Even if the game was balanced, SoloQ is a torturous experience to submit yourself to anymore. Idk how blind the devs must be to not understand how these two things are related.


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