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 Post subject: Re: Is Clunk good at anything ?
 Post Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 12:37 am 
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Shank377 wrote:
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Push turrets ? His damage is ridiculously low.

Not sure where you're getting this impression unless you're using SD for turrets. His missiles do full damage against turrets, which is 14 right out of the gate.

A base attack of 14 with a 60 attack speed means 840 Damage Per Minute. That's quite low (Froggy has 715, Leon has 1200 +clones), and the missile upgrades ar extremely expensive for a weak gain (fully upgraded missile has 2000 DPM, while Froggy's gun has 8000). On top of that, his bite doesn't hurt turrets and explosion must be kept in case of emergency. And as a rushteam with Voltar, Leon is far better.

Shank377 wrote:
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Attack in 1vs1 ? He gets dominated by Froggy at any level, by Lonestar once he gets his 3 dynamites and missiles, and by Leon and even Voltar end-game. Also, he can't reach Yuri.

Early game, Froggy can't do enough damage to Clunk to win 1v1 unless you're just sitting still and shooting (or worse, SD spamming).

My Froggy can, but I won't tell how ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Is Clunk good at anything ?
 Post Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 2:00 am 
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Well first of I feel that most complaints on characters are based on individual bases and not considered in a team setting.

Clunk has a snare that is stupid good. He can ruin turrets with his missile upgrades and he has the highest health in the game. He can push and defend well in a well played team. I think people don't go to the lab and mindlessly throw out these ideas without thinking things through.


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 Post subject: Re: Is Clunk good at anything ?
 Post Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 3:41 am 
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SafeOnBlock wrote:
Well first of I feel that most complaints on characters are based on individual bases and not considered in a team setting.

Clunk has a snare that is stupid good. He can ruin turrets with his missile upgrades and he has the highest health in the game. He can push and defend well in a well played team. I think people don't go to the lab and mindlessly throw out these ideas without thinking things through.

You must not lurk these forums enough. Speaking of teamwork is blasphemy.

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 Post subject: Re: Is Clunk good at anything ?
 Post Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 4:15 am 
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A base attack of 14 with a 60 attack speed means 840 Damage Per Minute. That's quite low (Froggy has 715, Leon has 1200 +clones), and the missile upgrades ar extremely expensive for a weak gain (fully upgraded missile has 2000 DPM, while Froggy's gun has 8000). On top of that, his bite doesn't hurt turrets and explosion must be kept in case of emergency. And as a rushteam with Voltar, Leon is far better.

I haven't done much frame counting on the moves, but remember reading here awhile ago that the displayed attack speeds weren't matching up with the actual ones. Not sure which you're using so I'll drop that for now.
Either way, spitting out a DPM number is assuming you're shooting at a inanimate object with no interruptions. In an actual match you're going to have the turret firing at you (although Voltar more or less eliminates that) and the other team to deal with. Froggy and Leon have very short range and low HP, they won't last long against a turret without Voltar disabling it (and I consider that to be more of an issue with Voltar's drones than with characters who don't exploit that loophole as well as others). Leon's clones make theoretical calculations nearly pointless, it's no surprise that any one character's damage output is going to be less than three Leons.
On the other hand, if you're judging characters based on their broken/exploitable attributes, then yeah, Clunk's not going to do well.
Quote:
My Froggy can, but I won't tell how ;)

I should have added to that; "assuming you're not up against a terrible Clunk, which admittedly comprises the vast majority of them".


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 Post subject: Re: Is Clunk good at anything ?
 Post Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 4:48 am 
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As a self-proclaimed "good" Clunk player I gotta say something to defend the big guy. What Azur_7 has said in his posts is true...to a certain extent. Clunk is not the best turret destroyer... unless you make his missiles do 8760 DPM with the right setup, but I digress as most players won't let me stay in that sweet spot where the turret cannot fire back at me, darn them. He's not the greatest turret defender either, but boy is it a hoot when you snare someone in front of your turret and watch them die slowly by the turret :twisted: Or watching a Voltar with an army of creeps run away in fear as they were all destroyed in a single explosion :lol: . I don't think Clunk is the best 1v1'er in the game either that award goes to just about anyone else, but boy is it satisfying when you kill someone that thought they could take you 1v1 just cause you're a Clunk and then you get taunted by them cause they somehow still think they are better than you *shrugs*. As for team play? Doesn't what matter more in that aspect is who you are playing with? And not with what characters you are playing with? I've seen plenty of dumb Clunk's who think their impressive health makes them a big deal, but at the same time i've seen plenty of other dumb characters like a Voltar who never healed (who doesn't want extra solar?) or a Froggy G who thought his dash and tornado shield actually made him invincible...that is until he died.

TL;DR
Clunk might not be the best at any one area, but he's pretty damn good at just about everything. Clunk smash!!!


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 Post subject: Re: Is Clunk good at anything ?
 Post Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 12:08 pm 
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Yeah, Clunk is kind of a generalist.

And when rushing a turret, he can hit the turret earlier than most and as a result usually more often, so he does more damage against "drive by turret attacks" than anyone else, and because he has so much health, he can stand in there a bit longer.

SD is good for stealing a few kills early when folks aren't paying attention.

His bite's max health growth gives you some flexability to take something else on the 4th skill line rather than a health increase (Regen might be useful for an SD Clunk, Or Solar Tree to help pay for the expensive stuff late). It's heavy life steal is also useful in keeping him in the fight, and again, is often overlooked early.

He's slow, and he's vulnerable at times, but he can pack a big punch quickly, and is pretty versatile.

Also, I find his exploding missiles are useful for defending the turrents. You get reasonable AoE per shot, which can counter Voltair's healing pretty well, or he can SD to wipe out most of the droids.

I think some of the issue is a few other overpowered things on other characters make him look weak.

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 Post subject: Re: Is Clunk good at anything ?
 Post Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 12:15 pm 
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Xenorith wrote:
Clunk is not the best turret destroyer... unless you make his missiles do 8760 DPM with the right setup

I made the calculations, his max missile DPM is 2580. With CD and damage upgrade for Explosion, you can add 425 DPM, for a total of about 3000 DPM. And it cost you a thousand solar just for missile upgrades.

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 Post subject: Re: Is Clunk good at anything ?
 Post Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 4:15 pm 
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I never had the feeling clunk is bad compared to others while playing games. Especially early game people avoid you.
And I remember one time I was yuri with speed upgrade bubble, and my brother had the 400 solar rocket upgrade for clunk and probably some other auto attack upgrades.. it really felt like we destroyed turrets in less than 10 seconds.

I think the hard thing with clunk is that you got to time your attacks, since most characters are fast enough to avoid your bite and explosion.


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 Post subject: Re: Is Clunk good at anything ?
 Post Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 6:22 pm 
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Azur_7 wrote:
Xenorith wrote:
Clunk is not the best turret destroyer... unless you make his missiles do 8760 DPM with the right setup

I made the calculations, his max missile DPM is 2580. With CD and damage upgrade for Explosion, you can add 425 DPM, for a total of about 3000 DPM. And it cost you a thousand solar just for missile upgrades.


What?
Pretty sure you missed the Salvo Pack+Missile Combos.

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And would suffice.

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 Post subject: Re: Is Clunk good at anything ?
 Post Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 7:57 pm 
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FireflyJenkins wrote:
Azur_7 wrote:
Xenorith wrote:
Clunk is not the best turret destroyer... unless you make his missiles do 8760 DPM with the right setup

I made the calculations, his max missile DPM is 2580. With CD and damage upgrade for Explosion, you can add 425 DPM, for a total of about 3000 DPM. And it cost you a thousand solar just for missile upgrades.


What?
Pretty sure you missed the Salvo Pack+Missile Combos.

Salvo pack + missile barrage + attack speed.
With attack speed upgrade, you shot 86 times/minute.
With salvo and double missile, each shot deals on average (14+18*2+22*2+26)/4 = 30 damage.
86*30=2580 DPM.
Q.E.D :geek:
As I said before, he's weak. Too weak. He needs big buffs.

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