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 Post subject: Re: Balance
 Post Posted: Mon May 07, 2012 5:26 am 
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Joined: Fri May 04, 2012 7:22 am
Posts: 31
cXem wrote:
You have drones out, they kill em, you respawn em since it had no cooldown since they previously existed. they can deal 16 x 4 damage = 64 damage burst thats consistent. Add additional health for voltar, Movement speed, And you win. Since Most players will try to stack damage and such, you will burst them, and due to additional solar gain, you get to stack hp first.

First off, it has to be late game before you have the Drones upgraded that much (especially with extra HP and Speed). I rarely, if ever, have games that last that long, and if they do, then the next rush usually wins anyways. Second, people tend to travel in packs in this game. The Drones might get an instant respawn (or they might not considering it is almost a 12 second cooldown), but they can be taken back down just as fast by someone else. Froggy G can take out two sets by himself because his Tornado kills Drones just as well as his dash does. Lonestar can push them back with the Bull while he waits for his Dynamite to cooldown (which doesn't take long). The characters that are really hurt by the Drones are Voltar, Yuri, and Leon, which wouldn't make a good team to start with.

Anyone can play Theory-Nauts. Go play the game and do some testing. Things don't always work out exactly how they do on paper.


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 Post subject: Re: Balance
 Post Posted: Mon May 07, 2012 5:48 am 
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Posts: 29
SPTwhte wrote:
1. Leon Clones should not award Solar for being healed. I almost always end up WAY higher level than anyone else in the game, because I grind my friend's Clones.

2. Make turrets ignore attack Drones. This change will make it harder to tank a Turret.

3. Make attack Drones do less damage to Turrets/Core. Currently they do full damage to Core and a little over 1/2 damage to Turrets, and once they are fully upgraded, then they eat through Turrets/core like butter. Turret/Core massacre is not a position that Voltar should be able to fill.


I think ALL four would nerf him too much. But one or the other would be nice.

Btw, he does 70% dmg to turrets. That's just not low enough, if you spec him for damage.

Also, if you guys think having maxed drone power is a late game issue, I'm not sure you quite know how to maximize Solar gain. I generally get it when the enemy is around level 10 (and I'm WAY above because Voltar gains Solar like a mofo). EVENTUALLY you might build your character to deal with it... But odds are, there will be no eventually. Because I'm now a healing, hero killing, turret tanking machine and your base doesn't have much time to live...


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 Post subject: Re: Balance
 Post Posted: Mon May 07, 2012 5:55 am 
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Deadpool wrote:
Also, if you guys think having maxed drone power is a late game issue, I'm not sure you quite know how to maximize Solar gain. I generally get it when the enemy is around level 10 (and I'm WAY above because Voltar gains Solar like a mofo). EVENTUALLY you might build your character to deal with it... But odds are, there will be no eventually. Because I'm now a healing, hero killing, turret tanking machine and your base doesn't have much time to live...

Yeah, most of my games end around the 3 minute mark. Usually about the time the top opponents are hitting level 6-7. Tonight when I was playing, I kept telling my friends to stop killing the opponents and let them hit our Turrets because I was tired of people running away and leaving the game.


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 Post subject: Re: Balance
 Post Posted: Mon May 07, 2012 6:18 am 
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Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2012 7:56 pm
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Location: Timrå of Sweden
Biggest problem I see would be that the base is unprotected. And the protection should change depending how many turrets there are left.

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 Post subject: Re: Balance
 Post Posted: Mon May 07, 2012 9:21 am 
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Joined: Mon May 07, 2012 9:02 am
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Location: Italy
I think that NOONE could damage the turrets alone without taking damage.
Yuri can do it by staying just over the turret at the right angle; the turret will not see him and so he can keep shooting his laser without receive damage.

So probably the solution is raise the turret's attack angle.


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 Post subject: Re: Balance
 Post Posted: Mon May 07, 2012 9:28 am 
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Sibis wrote:
I think that NOONE could damage the turrets alone without taking damage.
Yuri can do it by staying just over the turret at the right angle; the turret will not see him and so he can keep shooting his laser without receive damage.

So probably the solution is raise the turret's attack angle.

His damage is nerfed. So if they do that, they'd have to up his attack on turrets.

And there are other moves that can be used out of range of the turret to damage a turret, that do more than 1 damage.


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 Post subject: Re: Balance
 Post Posted: Mon May 07, 2012 10:25 am 
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Sibis wrote:
I think that NOONE could damage the turrets alone without taking damage.
Yuri can do it by staying just over the turret at the right angle; the turret will not see him and so he can keep shooting his laser without receive damage.

So probably the solution is raise the turret's attack angle.

I agree. Yuri is also capable of dropping bombs on the turret from directly above. You can basically just hide at the roof and spam bombs on the turret.

Optionally (and probably better) is to simply just remove the bomb's ability to hit the turret at all.


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 Post subject: Re: Balance
 Post Posted: Mon May 07, 2012 12:59 pm 
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Elvick wrote:
I think drones not being targeted would be a good idea for turrets. They can still take a hit if they happen to fly in front of a bullet, but they shouldn't be focused on.

That doesn't work well. Since the turrets target the highest enemy, and those things just float around so randomly the AI can't track just one. So it randomly switches between drones, creepers and players.

Making them far less effective. It's like when you're going from the front and back of a turret, it gets confused and freaks out. Letting you get away with doing a ton of damage while it struggles to figure out which way to face and fire.

Really? Didn't know that may have to play yuri some more.

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 Post subject: Re: Balance
 Post Posted: Mon May 07, 2012 2:07 pm 
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Location: Denmark/Sweden
BackPacked wrote:
I agree. Yuri is also capable of dropping bombs on the turret from directly above. You can basically just hide at the roof and spam bombs on the turret.

Optionally (and probably better) is to simply just remove the bomb's ability to hit the turret at all.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe there are currently any levels where this strategy is possible due to the level design?

In my experience, the bombs will only hit the turrets if you kamikaze sideways into them as you are deploying the bomb, or if you manage to drop it just at the feet of the turret, and creep/heroes then trigger it.

I think Yuris bombs and heavily downscaled laser damage against turrets works just fine the way they are now :)

In general I am very impressed by the level of balance in this game!
I have been playing since Thursday, and have yet to come across anything I haven't been able to adapt to in a game or two.

Awesome job guys :D

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 Post subject: Re: Balance
 Post Posted: Mon May 07, 2012 2:17 pm 
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I dont think any player should be modified, they are fine just as they are

but i absolutely agree, the logical priority seems to be sphere drones->creeps->nearest player and should be creeps->heal bot(if in range) or nearest player->sphere drones (if voltar is out of range)

And i will insist, when a team break a tower is the defending team the one that should be getting super droids not the one attacking, that makes it even more harder to counterattack

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