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Fuzia
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Post subject: Re: Balance  Posted: Tue May 08, 2012 8:53 pm |
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Joined: Sun May 06, 2012 2:55 pm
Posts: 294
Location: Denmark
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Deadpool wrote:
This is a big change, but here's an idea: The path to the base is blocked to all enemies unless there's a bot within a certain range of it. The path will remain open as long as there's ANY enemy (bot or player) within its range after it has been open by a bot. It will close when all enemies have been cleared for... ten seconds? Five? Fifteen? Whatever.
The idea here is that the defending team is at disadvantage still (no bots can get through), and the attacking players can still benefit from getting behind enemy lines (cutting off the defender's line of bots) BUT the losing team at least has a chance to mount a counter attack.
Just a thought...
I thought of this exact same thing earlier while I was playing. Our towers were destroyed, but we could still manage to hold them back. Now, we had to push and defend at the same time, which just couldn't be done. If we were pushing, they would just go for our base, and if we were defending nothing would really ever happen, except that our base was just taking less damage at a time, giving them more power with each rush they made. We could take them on in a 3v3 fight, but before we pushed the creeps enough of the way to their towers and actually had time to take 'em down, they would be backdooring our base, which meant we had to back, and since the team with the upperhand could just kill our creeps at the spawn, it took no time for their creeps to fight all the way back... so I'm all in on this idea. RedArremer wrote: I dunno which turrets you're going against or what amazing minions you have, but without upgrades on my heal or an additional heal station, I can't keep the minions alive against a turret.
Get the skills and 1 drone upgrade. Now you have enough power to never let creeps die. Simply, spawn your drones, and heal creeps untill they reach the turret. Now drop your healing station and spam heal. "BUT THAT ISN'T ENOUGH" you say! Well, here's where your 3 drones are needed. They spass around the tower, making the tower target the one closest to it, and also trying to target the creeps. Now the tower does about 4-8 damage a second to random stuff, because the tower is so busy changing targets. Eventually your drones will get shot down, but you will have healed the creeps enough for them to take the beating untill both drones and healingbot is up again... rinse and repeat untill tower is down. This strategy works even better with teammates c: ... the reason you need 2 levels in drones, is because 2 drones will get shot down WAY faster than 3.
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RedArremer
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Post subject: Re: Balance Posted: Tue May 08, 2012 9:00 pm |
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Joined: Mon May 07, 2012 5:59 pm
Posts: 168
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Fuzia wrote: Get the skills and 1 drone upgrade. Now you have enough power to never let creeps die. Simply, spawn your drones, and heal creeps untill they reach the turret. Now drop your healing station and spam heal. "BUT THAT ISN'T ENOUGH" you say!
Well, here's where your 3 drones are needed. They spass around the tower, making the tower target the one closest to it, and also trying to target the creeps. Now the tower does about 4-8 damage a second to random stuff, because the tower is so busy changing targets. Eventually your drones will get shot down, but you will have healed the creeps enough for them to take the beating untill both drones and healingbot is up again... rinse and repeat untill tower is down. This strategy works even better with teammates c: ... the reason you need 2 levels in drones, is because 2 drones will get shot down WAY faster than 3. I know that tactic, I use it myself. But meiam said that he can keep minions up with nothing but his naked heal beam. No stations, no drones: meiam wrote: Combine that with his ability to keep bots up indefinitely against turret without any upgrade and you can very significantly change the first 5 min of a game.
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Fuzia
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Post subject: Re: Balance Posted: Tue May 08, 2012 9:05 pm |
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Joined: Sun May 06, 2012 2:55 pm
Posts: 294
Location: Denmark
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RedArremer wrote: Fuzia wrote: Get the skills and 1 drone upgrade. Now you have enough power to never let creeps die. Simply, spawn your drones, and heal creeps untill they reach the turret. Now drop your healing station and spam heal. "BUT THAT ISN'T ENOUGH" you say!
Well, here's where your 3 drones are needed. They spass around the tower, making the tower target the one closest to it, and also trying to target the creeps. Now the tower does about 4-8 damage a second to random stuff, because the tower is so busy changing targets. Eventually your drones will get shot down, but you will have healed the creeps enough for them to take the beating untill both drones and healingbot is up again... rinse and repeat untill tower is down. This strategy works even better with teammates c: ... the reason you need 2 levels in drones, is because 2 drones will get shot down WAY faster than 3. I know that tactic, I use it myself. But meiam said that he can keep minions up with nothing but his naked heal beam. No stations, no drones: meiam wrote: Combine that with his ability to keep bots up indefinitely against turret without any upgrade and you can very significantly change the first 5 min of a game. That's what I get for being all TL;DR on his end.  My mistake, I apologize.
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SPTwhte
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Post subject: Re: Balance Posted: Tue May 08, 2012 9:24 pm |
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Joined: Fri May 04, 2012 7:22 am
Posts: 31
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QAUKeR--- wrote: thats it, Voltar´s drones should have 15hp instead of 40, that way voltar players will need to choose between Force Fields with its +25 HP OR the extra +5 dmg (cause Drone Army is pretty much Mandatory) Drones start with 20 health. The upgrade takes them to 40.
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QAUKeR---
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Post subject: Re: Balance Posted: Tue May 08, 2012 9:30 pm |
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Joined: Thu May 03, 2012 2:37 pm
Posts: 85
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SPTwhte wrote: QAUKeR--- wrote: thats it, Voltar´s drones should have 15hp instead of 40, that way voltar players will need to choose between Force Fields with its +25 HP OR the extra +5 dmg (cause Drone Army is pretty much Mandatory) Drones start with 20 health. The upgrade takes them to 40. This is an extract of the file de devs shared for the Wikia Guide: Force fields Gives drones the ability to protect themselves against damage. The best protection for your robot pets. Health +25[NEWLINE]Shield yes Cooldown 16s[NEWLINE]Amount 2[NEWLINE]Damage 5[NEWLINE] Health 40 [+25][NEWLINE]Attack speed 48[NEWLINE]Speed 6[NEWLINE]Shield no [yes] i tought that because of this
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PSN id: QUAKeR---
Valar Morghulis - Valar dohaeris
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meiam
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Post subject: Re: Balance Posted: Tue May 08, 2012 10:27 pm |
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Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2012 7:23 pm
Posts: 73
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I said upgrade, not ability. Why it so important is that as soon as you start the game, you can grab piggy bank and buy both ability and right there you can get out the gate and take out a turret without having to return to base. So if the other team lose the initial skirmish with 2 death, you can kiss one turret good bye
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SPTwhte
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Post subject: Re: Balance Posted: Tue May 08, 2012 10:59 pm |
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Joined: Fri May 04, 2012 7:22 am
Posts: 31
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meiam wrote: I said upgrade, not ability. Why it so important is that as soon as you start the game, you can grab piggy bank and buy both ability and right there you can get out the gate and take out a turret without having to return to base. So if the other team lose the initial skirmish with 2 death, you can kiss one turret good bye If the other team loses the initial skirmish with 2 deaths, then they were never going to win the game. Ending the game quick is doing them a service. I think many people are confusing "lack of balance" with "playing terrible." It happens, and there are a ton of bad players, while only a handful of good ones.
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digitallimit
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Post subject: Re: Balance Posted: Tue May 08, 2012 11:34 pm |
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Joined: Sat May 05, 2012 2:00 pm
Posts: 100
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After playing him for all of yesterday, Yuri has a lot of problems:
1) Leon absolutely destroys Yuri. The entire match as the monkey, you're fearing for your life, afraid Leon is gonna pop out of the shadows and kill you before you can even think to react. There's no particularly effective counter for it, and Leon being the most popular character makes playing Yuri a chore.
The only choice I've found is to always be flying up high dropping bombs or hovering near a turret, and even then Leon can rip through you with time to retreat. If there's a Leon in a match, you're forced to upgrade movement and possibly health if you want to stay competitive.
I'm not sure what a great solution is, here. Removing the melee-dropping effect from Leon? Upping Yuri's base speed or health? Giving Yuri a push effect with his laser might help. And there's always the fixing of his aura, which may be the real issue here.
2) His aura's base effect is clunky and ineffective. I've never been in a situation or seen a situation where it has been helpful. If it simply didn't stall Yuri on start-up, it might be a reasonable counter-measure against Leon and other pursuing 'nauts, but as it stands it's just not good.
3) As well, the healing it provides is sad joke. Making him more of a mirror to Voltar where investing in the healing aura is a real competitive choice would be a nice direction. Currently, it's barely useful for healing yourself, let alone your teammates. Lower the cooldown and make the upgrades cheaper. They're not that great as it is.
4) The slight "pulling" effect of his laser doesn't actually do anything. I've seen it pull opposing 'nauts and bots occasionally, but it's very inconsistent, and can be further broken by certain additional upgrades. Stacking pull skills actually broke it, as did stacking damage with pull. Investing in pull is wasted Solar with the glitchiness and its general lack of effectiveness.
5) This last one is subjective, but in general I've felt 100 times more effective as any other character. He feels weaker. I feel afraid of enemy units. I'm often hunted. It's just not a positive experience playing as someone who is forced to hide up in the air out of sight because you're a push over, and teammates aren't really excited to have you around since your team aspect--the aura--is wholly ineffective. People run to Voltar for health. They teleport back when Yuri heals. Eh.
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digitallimit
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Post subject: Re: Balance Posted: Tue May 08, 2012 11:43 pm |
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Joined: Sat May 05, 2012 2:00 pm
Posts: 100
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... k3I#t=558sAlso, I find this footage of Voltar soloing a turret sort of suspect. He's doesn't even upgrade his drones' health. Maybe instead of having the turret target drones, drones should just be a lot weaker. That makes sense. Also, lol, he takes on a Clunk and a Leon at the same time after soloing a turret. Kills both. Balanced!
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Fuzia
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Post subject: Re: Balance Posted: Wed May 09, 2012 12:26 am |
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Joined: Sun May 06, 2012 2:55 pm
Posts: 294
Location: Denmark
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digitallimit wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=NKamNqQuk3I#t=558s
Also, I find this footage of Voltar soloing a turret sort of suspect. He's doesn't even upgrade his drones' health. Maybe instead of having the turret target drones, drones should just be a lot weaker. That makes sense.
Also, lol, he takes on a Clunk and a Leon at the same time after soloing a turret. Kills both. Balanced! I never knew that Voltar could take on a tower ALONE... that's the first sign of balance issues I've seen with Voltar, and really needs to be adressed with the towers not focusing on drones fix mentioned earlier. Other than that, the other team was just god awful!
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