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 Post subject: Playing for fun Vs. playing for win
 Post Posted: Sun May 05, 2013 10:49 am 
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This is a debate I've had with Assassinine in a previous post (which I'm sure you've all seen) but I've done some research, so lets continue in a more official thread, eh?

To understand why we play, and what we play for, we first need to understand what a game is:
Bernard Suits wrote:
A game is a voluntary attempt to overcome unnecessary challenges

In other words, we are challenging ourselves or trying to overcome a challenge

There are several different "unnecessary challenges"
These were defined by computer game designer:

Chris Crawford wrote:
A plaything, must be both interactive, and fun.
If it isn't fun, we wouldn't put ourselves in the position to play with it
Chores, are interactive,. but not fun
And a book, for instance, is fun, but not interactive

Now when we introduce an objective, the toy becomes a challenge
And playing on our own makes this challenge a puzzle
Like a Jigsaw puzzle or Rubix cube

When others are involved this is a conflict
When you are dis-allowed to interact with others, Like 100m sprint, this is a competition
If the opposite is true, this is a game

Many people have argued that Life, fits the definition of a game
With life being Interactive, goal oriented and generally enjoyable

Now we can discuss why we play games:

In the animal kingdom, games are not played physicality prepare the body
When playing there is a risk, that an animal could injure itself
Studies have shown that play is to prepare the mind

Abraham Maslov Came up with a pyramid on needs for all animal life, a creature must first fill the bottom tier before moving to the next.
An animal running for its life, for instance, wont be looking for a potential mate.
Image

Animals play to satisfy the needs in this pyramid, the more complex the animal, the more complex the pyramid. Adults generally don't play with their younger counterparts, because the "game" would be too easy, they tend to play with older, equal animals.

Humans use games to get the rewards they need, quickly and immediately
and the bigger the challenger they overcome, the more reward they give themselves
E.G beating the final boss of a game is more rewarding than beating a standard enemy


Humans don't always play to win, but they play for reward.
If the reward is winning, they they will try to win. But if winning is too easy, they will attempt to make if more difficult for themselves. Those who play for a win regardless, either do not need the added reward of winning, and are instead receiving it from another source, or are more insecure about losing.
The creation of rules, and the increased complexity, just shows how intelligent humans have become.

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Last edited by M_logo on Sun May 05, 2013 5:06 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Playing for fun Vs. playing for win
 Post Posted: Sun May 05, 2013 12:32 pm 
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While this is definitely interesting stuff, how exactly is it relevant?

Im starting to question if you truly understand the underlying issue here. :(

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 Post subject: Re: Playing for fun Vs. playing for win
 Post Posted: Sun May 05, 2013 3:05 pm 
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Its mostly background information, for the final paragraph.
The post is more to do with the psychology of wining / fun, rather than morality (which is the usual angle history boys anyone?)

But I am glad you enjoyed the read.

EDIT:
I put the relevant parts in this color for you, Assassinine.

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 Post subject: Re: Playing for fun Vs. playing for win
 Post Posted: Sun May 05, 2013 3:42 pm 
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Too much text. My eyes. They burn.

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 Post subject: Re: Playing for fun Vs. playing for win
 Post Posted: Sun May 05, 2013 9:48 pm 
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Just why

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 Post subject: Re: Playing for fun Vs. playing for win
 Post Posted: Sun May 05, 2013 10:02 pm 
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The only way that could be relevant is if you are trying to claim that said information supports your creation of artificial "rules".

But it doesnt.

It states that we make rules to make games more complicated and difficult. Your imaginary rules dumb the game down and make it easier.

Even if it did support your stance, its still not relevant.
-

Once again, my issue isnt that you choose to hamstring yourself with these asinine rules. My issue is that you attempt to force your views on others

When they instead decide to, god forbid, actually play the game as it is presented to them, you get upset and treat them like sub-humans. This behaviour is unacceptable.

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 Post subject: Re: Playing for fun Vs. playing for win
 Post Posted: Mon May 06, 2013 7:22 am 
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Overcoming small challanges (like beating newbies) is easy, and even if you were playing for win, would still get boring. When playing against people at your own skill level,things become more interesting.

If you can't find any decent players, you can use a handicap.
This hinders your performance to make a game fair (Golf)

Beating any player using a handicap provides far more reward.
I. E Beating a Shotgun Frog as Voltar is awesome and beating a Voltar as Shotgun Frog is, meh.

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 Post subject: Re: Playing for fun Vs. playing for win
 Post Posted: Mon May 06, 2013 9:22 am 
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Assassinine wrote:
Once again, my issue isnt that you choose to hamstring yourself with these asinine rules. My issue is that you attempt to force your views on others

When they instead decide to, god forbid, actually play the game as it is presented to them, you get upset and treat them like sub-humans. This behaviour is unacceptable.


How many times must i say this?

The fact that you have not once even attempted to address this issue, and your preemptive response in the other thread, makes me wonder if you even realize how morally wrong this is.

All of your replies attempt to justify your ruleset, as if you somehow dont think your treatment of others is reprehensible

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 Post subject: Re: Playing for fun Vs. playing for win
 Post Posted: Mon May 06, 2013 11:42 am 
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Hey, I belive Shotgun shouldn't be played, I recruited Magikarp with people with similar beliefs.
I didn't force them to think what they do.

And, I'm probably the most leniant on tje use of overpowered builds.
There are people who belive quicksplode or Crttack speed is OP and shouldn't be used.

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 Post subject: Re: Playing for fun Vs. playing for win
 Post Posted: Mon May 06, 2013 11:45 am 
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M_logo wrote:
Hey, I belive Shotgun shouldn't be played, I recruited Magikarp with people with similar beliefs.
I didn't force them to think what they do.

And, I'm probably the most leniant on tje use of overpowered builds.
There are people who belive quicksplode or Crttack speed is OP and shouldn't be used.

He's not saying they're not OP, cuz they are.

He's just saying that people are allowed to use OP stuff. :P

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