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 Post subject: Timerift ignores "Treasure lottery map"?
 Post Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2018 1:47 am 
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Swiggins
After hooking onto an enemy, the debuff immunity shield is equipped for the 2.5 seconds.
Although, I'm still slowed by Timerift.
This happens 100% of the time.

thx, cya :CocoWink:


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 Post subject: Re: Timerift ignores "Treasure lottery map"?
 Post Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2018 8:20 am 
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More of an issue of wording than a bug. The only thing labelled as CC immunity that is immune to time modifiers is derpl sieged up

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 Post subject: Re: Timerift ignores "Treasure lottery map"?
 Post Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2018 8:53 am 
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eddster27 wrote:
More of an issue of wording than a bug. The only thing labelled as CC immunity that is immune to time modifiers is derpl sieged up


you forgot Qi'tara's salty seal


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 Post subject: Re: Timerift ignores "Treasure lottery map"?
 Post Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2018 12:45 pm 
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Salty seal isn't CC immunity. It's a 100% reduction to most CCs (e.g. kb still works against salty seal)

Debuff immunity = immune from CC effects (e.g. swiggs, yuri, vinnie etc.)
CC immunity = immune to the above and time modifiers (only derpl)

CC reductions = % reductions to all mentioned CC effects (e.g. bkm and salty seal)

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 Post subject: Re: Timerift ignores "Treasure lottery map"?
 Post Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2018 1:05 pm 
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your wording sounds like you want to differentiate CC immunity from CC reduction. Theorically that's correct, in practice that's kinda not the case.
100% damage reduction for example can't be considered like damage immunity.

That's far-fetched imo.

0 to 99% is indeed reduction, when it's 100% however I'd call that nullification or immunity here. Then again it's ronimo's wording even tough your logic is right. You're also right about kb not affecting it since it's not stated in the upgrade (not sure If I can consider it inconsistency or wanted difference)


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 Post subject: Re: Timerift ignores "Treasure lottery map"?
 Post Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2018 2:06 pm 
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Yeah, Awesomenauts isn't really consistent with crowd control effects.

I don't see why time modifications get an arbitrary exemption from crowd control reductions. You either are or are not immune to crowd control effects. You can't be selectively unaffected, unless we want to go down the Dota path of having both spell immunity and magic damage resistance.

Awesomenauts is supposed to have simpler mechanics than other MOBAs. Bundle all crowd controls together (including knockbacks and time modifications) and negate them all with crowd control immunity. Have them all affected equally be incoming crowd control reduction (Baby Kuri Mammoth) and call it a day. Simple.

If you're immune to crowd control effects, you should be immune. You shouldn't even be considered by them in the first place. If we then want to have specific exemptions for certain abilities that would be disproportionately affected (Mighty Throw, Timerift, et cetera), specify this in their ability cards as pierces crowd control immunity or unaffected by crowd control reductions.

This might open up a can of worms for any 'Nauts that can affect you with "positive" (i.e. allied) crowd control effects, like Flash Forward. If so, the above should apply only to hostile effects. Again, we're not supposed to be complex with our mechanics.

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 Post subject: Re: Timerift ignores "Treasure lottery map"?
 Post Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2018 7:46 pm 
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It somewhat makes sense to me because time modifiers are more of an "environmental effect" than a debuff on what it hits. They work on projectiles, animations, solar/health getting to you etc. So it's not really a "Debuff". Whereas traditional debuffs only apply to entities with hp.

This logic isn't reflected in the item wording since consistent wording and Ronimo can't exist in a sentence together without a negative somewhere in between.

TLDR just say time rift/bubble is an "environmental effect" and not a debuff then change the wording for a few items and boom... Nauts wording is consistent.
(+ this could be expanded into things like ai flames - other ai gravity and maybe solar boss spit dmg)

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