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 Post subject: Re: Realynn rift and piercing is to save and does to much.
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 5:18 am 
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Morrowsaw wrote:
Hey I just wanted to say that I have nothing to say on this topic. :raehands: Cya

~Morrowsaw

I was in a game with a rocket, and he was like: "were you in my last game"
and I was like:
"yeah dude"
then he was like:
"play better"
then I was like:
"I couldn't carry a 1/7/1 sentry"
then he was like:
"..."
Then I got sad.

The game where he told me this I was a nibbs so it's relevant

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 Post subject: Re: Realynn rift and piercing is to save and does to much.
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 5:38 am 
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Uiomancant wrote:
I was in a game with a rocket, and he was like: "were you in my last game"
and I was like:
"yeah dude"
then he was like:
"play better"
then I was like:
"I couldn't carry a 1/7/1 sentry"
then he was like:
"..."
Then I got sad.


Yeah yeah grow thicker skin n-
Uiomancant wrote:
The game where he told me this I was a nibbs

Image

~Morrowsaw

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 Post subject: Re: Realynn rift and piercing is to save and does to much.
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 5:51 am 
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I could tell you I was releasing somebodies personal information, but you'd still agree with me if I was playing nibbs.

Are you PETN

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 Post subject: Re: Realynn rift and piercing is to save and does to much.
 Post Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:50 am 
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Linn wrote:
The past few days that i have been playing nauts ive seen a realynn in almost every game i play. They almost always play the same aswel. Pierce with boots and droid on rift. I cannot express how frustrating it is to sit behind a tower and look at a realynn that gets free poke on a tower with the droid that triggers the turret to take damage, does a decent amount of damage and has a good healthpool. on top of that it can block players into the rift giving you this luck based mechanic of will it * me over or will it let me out. You can do three things to this. You dash trough the rift taking damage from it slowing you dow and wasting one of your abilities and try to kill realynn. you can wait until rift ends making a super obvious atack that is beyond predictable. or you can try poke them trough a realynn rift. I have played games where realynn doesnt do anything and still wins because she cheese pushes the whole game. she has one of the strongest auto atacks in the game and gets full piercing on it. so ontop of her making it near imposible to kill her when rift is up she also hits your turret no matter what. with skree totem being the only thing to prevent her from hitting the tower. she can deal damage to enemy awesomenauts, clear the wave and push the tower with only auto atacks because piercing pierces everything. I want her to be nerfed. next patch will buff her range and fix a bug on iron riffle making her even better than she already is.

Nerfs:
Timeslow on rift 60% --->40%

T-800 Dome
m̶a̶k̶e̶s̶ ̶t̶i̶m̶e̶r̶i̶f̶t̶ ̶s̶p̶a̶w̶n̶ ̶a̶ ̶h̶u̶m̶m̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶d̶r̶o̶i̶d̶ -------->Sniping a enemy trough rift will amp them for 15%

Piercing ----> split into 2 ranks each rank costs 80 solar. each rak lets her pierce a aditional target (like chucho's piercing)

These changes will shut down the frustrating cheese realynn i see every game and allow for a new more skillfull realynn with a amp snipe into a 200% damage shot.

~Linn


I can respect putting your name as a signature, it's old fashioned, like a letter. But I figure it'd be more convenient to have it as an actual signature instead of ending with it every time.

Anyway, I'll concede pretty much every Raelynn picks up the same things, boots on her are not only her only escape, but they're super good, they activate after using ability, not after dealing damage, meaning you can snipe and just speed boost away.
The reason every Raelynn gets pierce is actually a more recent decision, a lot of Raelynns ignored pierce in the past, but since Rift has had some of it's droid shredding nerfed and snipe was also nerfed in vs droid damage, both done with the intention of reducing stalling,
although personally I would have reduced the timeslow effectiveness against droids.
now with this, they buffed a lot of her early game power, and AA upgrades were buffed while her AA was already pretty strong, meaning pierce is now the go-to alternative for droid shredding.

I'm going to go over each of these change ideas.
Nerfing time rift by taking out 1/3 of it's slowing power is a pretty significant change, there's huge arguments about decreasing it by 10% let alone 20, that's a lot of power to take out of an ability without anything to make up for it, making it only slightly more potent than Yuri's time warp, while being a stationary object.

T-800 is not used for cheesing, by the way, Humming deals the least damage to turret of all droids, Rift's cooldown was nerfed, Humming only lasts long enough to fire off 2 shots on his own, and doesn't scale nearly as well, in higher levels, Humming's primary purpose is to body block, to tank for the sawblade droids so they can regen and deal more damage, or to provide vision, make of that what you will.
Now, I really want to figure out what you mean by this:
Quote:
Sniping a enemy trough rift will amp them for 15%

Well, I assumed at first it meant enemies in the rift would take 15% amplified sniping damage, but I'm assuming the snipe procs the amp rather than is amped itself, but also this means it has to be fired through time rift, now, let's assume this is correct, here's the problem with this upgrade idea with these other suggestions:

You are creating an upgrade that rewards sniping behind rift while also making it easier to get through rift, while also removing an upgrade that made it harder to force your way through rift, and since rift is being used while sniping, meaning rift is already burnt, and you're shooting an enemy who is not in it, and will not be pushed back into it with snipe, meaning they will be far from protoblaster range if they're smart. Meaning this would have no real application for Raelynn herself, at best, this would probably be used by Raelynns behind turret with range and damage to proc and have her team be able to finish them off better.

Finally, I don't mean to be that guy, but as good as I think pierce is, I think limiting the max pierce for the AA would only do so much when it came to her clearing power, one stage of this new alien hand would mean she can still clear droids for 70 solar less, and if she got both stages, it would cost slightly more, but if she were to be shooting a turret, and a droid wave were to show up, she would still be able to deal damage to both the droids and the turret.

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 Post subject: Re: Realynn rift and piercing is to save and does to much.
 Post Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:28 am 
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Time modifications aren't a linear thing, for a start.

A 60% time modification slows actions to 40% of their normal framerate—in other words, they take 2.5 times as long to finish (1 / 0.4 = 2.5).

A 40% time modification reduces actions to 60% of their normal framerate, and they now take 1.667 times as long to finish (1 / 0.6 = 1.6...). That's an enormous nerf.

So, Linn doesn't want to take a third off*, but rather completely destroy Timerift because exponentials are hard. Bonus points for then buying Baby Kuri Mammoth on top of this.

* Because I just know someone will plug (1 - (1.67 / 2.5) into their calculator and go "but that's almost exactly a third less powerful, LPT", remember that it's exponential, not linear, especially where other CC effects are concerned.

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 Post subject: Re: Realynn rift and piercing is to save and does to much.
 Post Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 1:43 pm 
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The Lord Protector wrote:
Time modifications aren't a linear thing, for a start.

A 60% time modification slows actions to 40% of their normal framerate—in other words, they take 2.5 times as long to finish (1 / 0.4 = 2.5).

A 40% time modification reduces actions to 60% of their normal framerate, and they now take 1.667 times as long to finish (1 / 0.6 = 1.6...). That's an enormous nerf.

So, Linn doesn't want to take a third off*, but rather completely destroy Timerift because exponentials are hard. Bonus points for then buying Baby Kuri Mammoth on top of this.

* Because I just know someone will plug (1 - (1.67 / 2.5) into their calculator and go "but that's almost exactly a third less powerful, LPT", remember that it's exponential, not linear, especially where other CC effects are concerned.


T H E M A T H M A N

Morrowsaw wrote:
Hey I just wanted to say that I have nothing to say on this topic. :raehands: Cya

~Morrowsaw


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 Post subject: Re: Realynn rift and piercing is to save and does to much.
 Post Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 1:44 pm 
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I also agree with everything Pheoniz said, especially regarding the uselessness of the summonable Hummingbird outside of bodyblocking.

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Say no to SAM wrote:
Give this guy a duck for making such a good job with this thread

Nekomian wrote:
Give this guy a duck lololol

DeezNauts wrote:
Nobody can see it. Maybe instead of asking for ducks, you should put it in your signature.


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 Post subject: Re: Realynn rift and piercing is to save and does to much.
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 9:49 am 
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The Lord Protector wrote:
Time modifications aren't a linear thing, for a start.

A 60% time modification slows actions to 40% of their normal framerate—in other words, they take 2.5 times as long to finish (1 / 0.4 = 2.5).

A 40% time modification reduces actions to 60% of their normal framerate, and they now take 1.667 times as long to finish (1 / 0.6 = 1.6...). That's an enormous nerf.

So, Linn doesn't want to take a third off*, but rather completely destroy Timerift because exponentials are hard. Bonus points for then buying Baby Kuri Mammoth on top of this.

* Because I just know someone will plug (1 - (1.67 / 2.5) into their calculator and go "but that's almost exactly a third less powerful, LPT", remember that it's exponential, not linear, especially where other CC effects are concerned.


God, first the attack speed now this, you're really out to make me feel dumb. :raehands:
That's some pretty good math.

_________________
The Golden Rule:
Always treat others like sisters and brothers
and they'll do the same for you.

The Lord Protector wrote:
The solution to this is having droids that are actually a threat instead of a joke.


Last edited by Pheoniz on Tue Apr 17, 2018 10:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Realynn rift and piercing is to save and does to much.
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 10:14 am 
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To be fair, attack speed is a completely arbitrary measurement system. I don't know why it's measured in attacks per minute instead of per second. I suppose it makes upgrades for it easier to design... except that all attack speed upgrades are percentage-based, which makes no difference either way (because attacks per minute is the same as attacks per second, just 60 times as large, obviously).

It makes sense in Dota, because we use both flat values and percentage increases in a system of differing base attack times (so things get messy), but it's pointless to have it that way in Awesomenauts, where only percentages are used.

I also just noticed that Timerift's value was given at 60% and not 65% for some reason. Mentally tweak all my numbers up a bit.

This is also the reason that Retro Spaceship has such a noticable increase in slowing power despite "only" being a +10% increase. As the slowing power increases towards 100%, the time taken to complete an action tends towards infinity. The difference between 5% time modification and 6% is absolutely unnoticable, but the difference between 98% and 99% is literally twice as slow again.

I'd like to see how a 100% time modification works in-engine, assuming it even does. It should pause you completely, as if you'd fallen into a true black hole (not Sentry's lame version) and we were watching from the outside. It'd probably crash all the physics calculations for platforming, though.

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Say no to SAM wrote:
Give this guy a duck for making such a good job with this thread

Nekomian wrote:
Give this guy a duck lololol

DeezNauts wrote:
Nobody can see it. Maybe instead of asking for ducks, you should put it in your signature.


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 Post subject: Re: Realynn rift and piercing is to save and does to much.
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 10:40 am 
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So.... A stasis?
Like, a real stasis, not cocoon.
Sounds like it belongs in Awesomenauts, seems pretty space-y to me.

_________________
The Golden Rule:
Always treat others like sisters and brothers
and they'll do the same for you.

The Lord Protector wrote:
The solution to this is having droids that are actually a threat instead of a joke.


Last edited by Pheoniz on Tue Apr 17, 2018 10:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

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