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 Post subject: How to balance Ayla(I fixed it)
 Post Posted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 11:46 am 
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Ayla currently counters certain characters to well while being to weak to others (example ayla vs. gnaw healing hp of weeds in rage) the reason being that ayla's life-steal can overcome a lot of characters sustained damage leaving her only vulnerable to heavy bursters.

Ayla fix:
Self damage taken in rage reduced by 3
Rage damage increased too 9
Rage attack speed decreased by 33% to compensate for higher rage damage(dps remaisn the same)
Life-steal reduced to 20% (still 2 default maxing at 3 but it'll take all the damage ups instead of just the first stage to reach it)
decrease self-damage increase from rage upgrade by 0.7 damage taken a second.
Damage increase changed too +3 per stage to compensate for lowered attack speed)
increase max hp by 20-30

Change prison guard keys to increase current hit-points on kill rather than max. cost -15 solar
AA damge up cost -50
AA attack speed cost +15
Ion blowtorch cost -10


Reasons:
Lowering The attack speed lowers the the health gained from life steal by a third. A flat lifesteal nerf dose not work do to the way life steal rounds.
self damage lowered to compensate for life steal nerf.
max hp increased to compensate for low regen and to make her less countered by extreme burst nauts. It also makes it easier to use AA builds.
Damage up changed for same reasons as default rage.
prison guard keys changed to stop max hp becoming to high with pills + keys after hp buff
AA prices changed to make aa more viable.
Speed was too cheap and damage was way too expensive.

Thoughts?

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Only way to balance Ayla I know of:
http://www.awesomenauts.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=16290


Make aoe builds viable and fixing other worthless upgrades:
http://www.awesomenauts.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=16801


Last edited by braydon180 on Sun Jul 07, 2013 11:27 pm, edited 10 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: How to balance Ayla: less damage taken during rage
 Post Posted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 11:59 am 
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I thought you meant less self-damage during rage and I was about to start agreeing with you, but then I saw a list of nerfs and I'm all like, "???", 'cause Ayla's not overpowered. If anything her rage needs a buff. Her survivability in rage is so terrible even with every survival upgrade available. If the enemy team stays as a group you just can't do jack against them.

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 Post subject: Re: How to balance Ayla: less damage taken during rage
 Post Posted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 12:06 pm 
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curiousmoth wrote:
I thought you meant less self-damage during rage and I was about to start agreeing with you, but then I saw a list of nerfs and I'm all like, "???", 'cause Ayla's not overpowered. If anything her rage needs a buff. Her survivability in rage is so terrible even with every survival upgrade available. If the enemy team stays as a group you just can't do jack against them.


I did say to nerf self damage by 4 a second... AND boost hp... well i'll try and make the main post a little clearer.

edit: their fixed it and the typos too.

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Only way to balance Ayla I know of:
http://www.awesomenauts.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=16290


Make aoe builds viable and fixing other worthless upgrades:
http://www.awesomenauts.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=16801


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 Post subject: Re: How to balance Ayla: less damage taken during rage
 Post Posted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 3:11 pm 
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The issue with Ayla is not that she deals too much damage to herself. It can seem like a lot sure, but that is usually due to the times you are using Rage while not having targets. Likewise, her bad matchups are not because she is hurting herself, but because those Nauts are solid characters with CC/DPS/Sustain effects that can trump her own.

I know a lot of people dislike the idea that Nauts can "counter" one another, but almost no matter the game you will have one character being better than another. It doesn't detriment the game and often just adds a complexity to it and something to work against. I'm fine with Clunk generally being able to outfight Ayla. You can still capitalize on a Clunk if you out play them, or have solid teamwork, and thats the point.


Lowering her Self-damage in this case allows for you to stay within Rage longer, but also makes you be unable to fight within a Teamfight with Rage very well because you are still very squishy and the extra 20-30 HP will be pointless in those fights as you will still be bursted down or DPS' without much recourse.

People still complain about Rage a lot of the time, but its generally know that Evil Eye builds are much safer and can often be seen as better due to less of a matchup issue. I love the Rage builds, but honestly they are not that big an issue that you need to change up her mechanics again.

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 Post subject: Re: How to balance Ayla: less damage taken during rage
 Post Posted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 4:15 pm 
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It's not so much that 'nauts counter each other, more that builds counter each other. There are people who can ruin a rage Ayla's day who can't get near an evil eye-focused Ayla, same with a lot of characters.

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 Post subject: Re: How to balance Ayla: less damage taken during rage
 Post Posted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 9:09 pm 
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Clever Girl wrote:
The issue with Ayla is not that she deals too much damage to herself. It can seem like a lot sure, but that is usually due to the times you are using Rage while not having targets. Likewise, her bad matchups are not because she is hurting herself, but because those Nauts are solid characters with CC/DPS/Sustain effects that can trump her own.

I know a lot of people dislike the idea that Nauts can "counter" one another, but almost no matter the game you will have one character being better than another. It doesn't detriment the game and often just adds a complexity to it and something to work against. I'm fine with Clunk generally being able to outfight Ayla. You can still capitalize on a Clunk if you out play them, or have solid teamwork, and thats the point.


Lowering her Self-damage in this case allows for you to stay within Rage longer, but also makes you be unable to fight within a Teamfight with Rage very well because you are still very squishy and the extra 20-30 HP will be pointless in those fights as you will still be bursted down or DPS' without much recourse.

People still complain about Rage a lot of the time, but its generally know that Evil Eye builds are much safer and can often be seen as better due to less of a matchup issue. I love the Rage builds, but honestly they are not that big an issue that you need to change up her mechanics again.


eye for murder and rage for chase/tank/sustain/positioning has very few matchups not in her favor. most matchups are wildly in her favor, so much that she becomes almost clunklike in that you need to put her in very specific 2/3v1 situations to stand a chance...and even then you're probably looking at a 1 for 1 trade. she's really not nearly as high risk or glass as she's advertised to be

I still think she's the second best character in the game currently


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 Post subject: Re: How to balance Ayla: less damage taken during rage
 Post Posted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 11:25 pm 
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Clever Girl wrote:
The issue with Ayla is not that she deals too much damage to herself. It can seem like a lot sure, but that is usually due to the times you are using Rage while not having targets. Likewise, her bad matchups are not because she is hurting herself, but because those Nauts are solid characters with CC/DPS/Sustain effects that can trump her own.

I know a lot of people dislike the idea that Nauts can "counter" one another, but almost no matter the game you will have one character being better than another. It doesn't detriment the game and often just adds a complexity to it and something to work against. I'm fine with Clunk generally being able to outfight Ayla. You can still capitalize on a Clunk if you out play them, or have solid teamwork, and thats the point.


Lowering her Self-damage in this case allows for you to stay within Rage longer, but also makes you be unable to fight within a Teamfight with Rage very well because you are still very squishy and the extra 20-30 HP will be pointless in those fights as you will still be bursted down or DPS' without much recourse.

People still complain about Rage a lot of the time, but its generally know that Evil Eye builds are much safer and can often be seen as better due to less of a matchup issue. I love the Rage builds, but honestly they are not that big an issue that you need to change up her mechanics again.


The point is not that ayla takes to much damage in rage... the goal is to stop her lifesteal making her invincible in certain scenarios. ayla can very easily get gauranteed kills on vinnie/gnaw do to her lifesteal and there weak aas, the self damage would only be nerfed to compensate for lowered lifesteal and the other changes are to . as for the hp increase its about 15-25% so it would not be insignificant. if its not enough she could be stuck on turbo pills too. hp increase also helps make aa builds more viable, her current aa is horrendous, and it helps her not instantly die to nuke+missle derpl or super snare bite clunks.

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Only way to balance Ayla I know of:
http://www.awesomenauts.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=16290


Make aoe builds viable and fixing other worthless upgrades:
http://www.awesomenauts.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=16801


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 Post subject: Re: How to balance Ayla: less damage taken during rage
 Post Posted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 12:40 am 
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The only problem with your suggestion is that she would have very bad sustain in rage mode with lifesteal nerf as far as dealing with whole teams and you dont want that because of the natural risk rage carries. I honestly feel like romna did the self damage/lifesteal values correct. The only problem I see with rage is that speed values need slight adjustments and obvious mandatory damage upgrade issue.

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 Post subject: Re: How to balance Ayla: less damage taken during rage
 Post Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 12:06 pm 
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frankie3 wrote:
The only problem with your suggestion is that she would have very bad sustain in rage mode with lifesteal nerf as far as dealing with whole teams and you dont want that because of the natural risk rage carries. I honestly feel like romna did the self damage/lifesteal values correct. The only problem I see with rage is that speed values need slight adjustments and obvious mandatory damage upgrade issue.

Rage would carry less risk and if you wanted to be able to charge int oa full team and kill them all to bad. thats not balance, thats stupidity.

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Only way to balance Ayla I know of:
http://www.awesomenauts.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=16290


Make aoe builds viable and fixing other worthless upgrades:
http://www.awesomenauts.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=16801


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 Post subject: Re: Clunk is OP
 Post Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 6:46 pm 
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Considering current ayla only needs one enemy in rage to sustain her rage mode (which is crazy) I would have to agree on either turning down her life steal or increasing damage to self.

This reminds me of the time V&S had double solar from cloud allowing him to effectively tank other players and turrets. Now Ayla is doing the same thing with rage.


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