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 Post subject: Fixing upgrades that aren't viable.
 Post Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 12:35 am 
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Booming bullets and Fragmentation shells are underused do to the drop in dps resulting from loosing an upgrade slot for them. I recently came up with an idea to allow them to not have far inferior dps without making them op, that should hopefully increase build diversity

Booming Bullets

Cost: 230 (+40)
Aoe: 3.4 (same)

Deals 1 more damage for every enemy hit by each shot. Dose not work with only one enemy. caps at +6 damage. ( for instance hitting 2 enemys with one bullet would deal 7 damage instead of 5)


:thumb: Froggy G :shrug:

Viridian eel cartridges

Cost: 200 (+60)
Pierce: Yes (same)
When a shot hits an enemy it will deal one more damage to every enemy it hits afterward. (stacks up too +4)(dose not work with thorn fish bullets)


Clunk

Fragmentation Shells

Aoe now based on which missle your firing:
1: 3.0 (-0.2)
2: 3.2 (same)
3: 3.4 (+0.2)
4: 3.6 (+0.4)

Multihose: (replacment named wanted. any ideas are apreciated)

Extra targets: 0 (-1)
Provides a 50% damage resistant shield while using bite. (while the animation is going)(works for self damage) The upgrade would allow a brief damage resisting shield to allow for safer bites or as a alternate titanium hardhat and a way to partially negate a burst attack.(see a BL/snipe coming? bite the air!)

Alternate upgrade:
Provides a 20% damage negating shield for 1.5 seconds after a successful bite.



Voltar
Default heal wave range increased by 0.4

Psychothrust:
Provides a speedup too allies you heal lasting for 1.5 seconds
Speedup: 7.5%
stages: 2
cost: 200
(dose not apply to voltar so it can't be used to run too much faster as you would lose voltar and the speed up.)(it's a time multiplier not movement speed)

Psychokinetic repulsion:
Provides a damage negating shield to allies you heal lasting 2.5 seconds
Shield: 7.5%
stages: 2
cost: 215
(dose not apply to voltar)

Alternate Psychokinetic repulsion:
Heal wave deflects projectiles
cost: 200


Genji

Broncho yeast:
Increases damage dealt by empowered allies:
Damage: +10%
Cost: 280
stages: 1

(allows for more offensive empowerment builds, allowing for a more offensive support.)




Thanks for reading. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.(flaming is not feedback its flaming)

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Only way to balance Ayla I know of:
http://www.awesomenauts.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=16290


Make aoe builds viable and fixing other worthless upgrades:
http://www.awesomenauts.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=16801


Last edited by braydon180 on Tue Jul 16, 2013 11:28 am, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Booming bullets, Fragmentation shells, and cats.
 Post Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 3:00 am 
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braydon180 wrote:
Booming bullets and Fragmentation shells are underused do to the drop in dps resulting from loosing an upgrade slot for them. I recently came up with an idea to allow them to not have far inferior dps without making them op, that should hopefully increase build diversity:

Booming Bullets

Cost: 230 (+40)
Aoe: 3.4 (same)

Deals 1 more damage for every enemy hit by each shot. Dose not work with only one enemy. caps at +6 damage. ( for instance hitting 2 enemys with one bullet would deal 7 damage instead of 5)


I personally feel that would make Lonestar way too strong at clearing droids, and he's already incredibly good at it. This would also make him wreck people who attack in groups; Lonestar doesn't need anymore buffs.

braydon180 wrote:
Fragmentation Shells

Cost: 180 (+30)
Stages: 2 (+1)
Aoe now based on which missle your firing:
1: 2.8 (-0.6)
2: 3.0 (-0.2)
3: 3.2 (same as original)
4: 3.6 (+0.4)

Adds one damage per enemy hit per stage. Dose not work with only one enemy. Caps at +10


Seems overly complicated; also runs into the same problem as Lonestar's idea. Clunk really isn't a 'pusher', and doesn't need assistance pushing. Just a somewhat unneeded change.

braydon180 wrote:
:drool: Derpl! :drool:

Derpl is far too dependent on damage upgrades for catling to use utility upgrades, unless of course there was a way to add dps while using them.

CatCat
(Need idea for new name. Any ideas would be appreciated.)

Dose not fire a backward cat (backward cats -1)
Gives an aoe to cats
Aoe: 3.0
stages: 2
Damage increase per enemies hit per stage: 1

Hover Cat

Hover cat now makes enemies hit hover (negating there first jump)


CatCat and HoverCat do need changes, but I don't feel this fits Derpl. I'd like to see Cats be more defensive than offensive; where Turret is your offensive 'AA' and Cats are your defensive AA.

braydon180 wrote:
:thumb: Froggy G :shrug:

Viridian eel cartridges

Cost: 200 (+60)
Pierce: Yes (same)
When a shot hits an enemy it will deal one more damage to every enemy it hits afterward. (stacks up too +4)(dose not work with thorn fish bullets)

Thanks for reading. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.(flaming is not feedback its flaming)


Again, I feel this is too powerful an upgrade. This would shred groups, and Froggy G already has some decent multi-hitting/AoE techniques. I don't think Pierce needs a buff, his other stuff just needs to be less viable.

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 Post subject: Re: Booming bullets, Fragmentation shells, and cats.
 Post Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 3:14 am 
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The idea behind these upgrades is that they make you good at fighting groups at the expense of 1v1ing so i thought this would be a good way to handle it. There are caps. Froggies is only as good as thorn or pirahnas at max damage and it would be hard to line up shots like that.

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Only way to balance Ayla I know of:
http://www.awesomenauts.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=16290


Make aoe builds viable and fixing other worthless upgrades:
http://www.awesomenauts.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=16801


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 Post subject: Re: Booming bullets, Fragmentation shells, and cats.
 Post Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 4:25 am 
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braydon180 wrote:
The idea behind these upgrades is that they make you good at fighting groups at the expense of 1v1ing so i thought this would be a good way to handle it. There are caps. Froggies is only as good as thorn or pirahnas at max damage and it would be hard to line up shots like that.


The problem is they have no downside to 1v1 either, other than you're not taking advantage of it. It's not common, at least when I play, for players to fight alone, or without droids.

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 Post subject: Re: Booming bullets, Fragmentation shells, and cats.
 Post Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 4:36 am 
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SSS Konobi wrote:
braydon180 wrote:
The idea behind these upgrades is that they make you good at fighting groups at the expense of 1v1ing so i thought this would be a good way to handle it. There are caps. Froggies is only as good as thorn or pirahnas at max damage and it would be hard to line up shots like that.


The problem is they have no downside to 1v1 either, other than you're not taking advantage of it. It's not common, at least when I play, for players to fight alone, or without droids.


Not getting 3 slots and not utilising the invested solar is a huge downside. imagine a negative piggy bank and then tell me if it has a downside or not. also one slot is 36% lones dps and forces clunk to drop dubbles or projectile speed, derpl also loses 30% max from this in 1v1s

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Only way to balance Ayla I know of:
http://www.awesomenauts.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=16290


Make aoe builds viable and fixing other worthless upgrades:
http://www.awesomenauts.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=16801


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 Post subject: Re: Booming bullets, Fragmentation shells, and cats.
 Post Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 4:40 am 
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braydon180 wrote:
SSS Konobi wrote:
braydon180 wrote:
The idea behind these upgrades is that they make you good at fighting groups at the expense of 1v1ing so i thought this would be a good way to handle it. There are caps. Froggies is only as good as thorn or pirahnas at max damage and it would be hard to line up shots like that.


The problem is they have no downside to 1v1 either, other than you're not taking advantage of it. It's not common, at least when I play, for players to fight alone, or without droids.


Not getting 3 slots and not utilising the invested solar is a huge downside. imagine a negative piggy bank and then tell me if it has a downside or not. also one slot is 36% lones dps and forces clunk to drop dubbles or projectile speed, derpl also loses 30% max from this in 1v1s


It's only a drop in DPS if you get stuck in constant 1v1 scenarios, which, I reiterate, is just unlikely.

Don't get me wrong, I like the concept, I just think it makes some characters too pushy where they don't need to be, and just would dominate team fights even harder.

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 Post subject: Re: Booming bullets, Fragmentation shells, and cats.
 Post Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 4:59 am 
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SSS Konobi wrote:

It's only a drop in DPS if you get stuck in constant 1v1 scenarios, which, I reiterate, is just unlikely.

Don't get me wrong, I like the concept, I just think it makes some characters too pushy where they don't need to be, and just would dominate team fights even harder.

so what would you suggest? lower max damage increase caps? only going up by one every 2 enemies hit? I'm open to suggestions.

_________________
Only way to balance Ayla I know of:
http://www.awesomenauts.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=16290


Make aoe builds viable and fixing other worthless upgrades:
http://www.awesomenauts.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=16801


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 Post subject: Re: Fixing upgrades that aren't viable.
 Post Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 11:59 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2013 9:14 pm
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Why do my threads all go straight to the graveyard... :(

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Only way to balance Ayla I know of:
http://www.awesomenauts.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=16290


Make aoe builds viable and fixing other worthless upgrades:
http://www.awesomenauts.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=16801


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 Post subject: Re: Fixing upgrades that aren't viable.
 Post Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 12:10 am 
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braydon180 wrote:
Why do my threads all go straight to the graveyard... :(

Threads are sometimes hit or miss. Even though I personally agree that all the aoe upgrades are useless as a whole and should be replaced or modified to give some type of extra effect.

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 Post subject: Re: Fixing upgrades that aren't viable.
 Post Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 12:33 am 
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I like the way you think, I also believe these need to be improved, but not by so much, since most upgrades make them look useless. Don't get me wrong they have their uses, just not as much as others.

Booming Bullets: This upgrade would be fine aside that missles do that and better, I really have no idea how to make it better. Not sure if your idea would work though.. could work.

Cat Cat: I really like the idea of mirror cats (not sure who said it) so you can bombard from above and make new startegies and such. I believe that would work.

Hover cat: I'm not sure about your idea, seems weird. introducing a new debuff that cancels jump would be great, maybe call it Grounded. Intresting one.'

Viridian Eel: I do believe instead of making it a Multinaut killer. Make it a pusher upgrade! as such: +4 damage to non-awesomenauts targets (and piercing). This would allow him to clear driods, destroy things such as healbot, and maybe do more damage to turrets (not sure if it should affect them).

Multihose: I actually like the way multihose is currently, and it is far from useless (from my perspective anyway). The change you suggest is really interesting... but not really needed. You could give it a 2nd stage but that would probably break clunk even more.

Pychothrust: I hate how voltar has such a short range, but that's part of mastering him I suppose, you shouldn't be punished for healing though! (taking random AOE explosion for trying to heal someone), so extra range is always nice. As for the change itself, I don't really think speedup would quite work, could cause an ally to miss the combo he wanted, also giving an ally more speed would just make him run away from you, which is kind of discouraged as he runs faster than you. If he sticks to you for healing, whats the use?

Repulsion: This could be overpowered, even though it's just 15% shield, it's a Constant one, pair this with genji + double shield Derpl and BAM, unkillable. so really, I have to disagree with this one. and once again, I have no ideas on what to replace this.

Bronco Yeast: Interesting, allows an offensive buff rather than a defensive one. (kind of reminds me of buff banner from tf2). I like it, should be tested though and see if it's not too powerful (I doubt it'd be that powerful though, but it will, indeed, be useful).


And that's my 2 cents. overall, some nice changes, some insane ones. but is nice, with some tweaks and changes, it might just work.

Please mind any spelling mistakes

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