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 Post subject: Just Voltar. Added the shieldbot optional below healwave.
 Post Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 8:44 pm 
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As the title implies Time for the rebalance and rework of voltar. When I balance its not just about the power of one build, its about making various playstyles with different builds equally viable. Of course mandatory damage will still limit full build variety but this is to alleviate the issue a bit until something is done about it.

Issues I find with him:

1. Too much emphasis is put around his healing which polarizes his effectiveness. When he is disadvantaged he gets stomped. Though with an advantage he snowballs to victory.
2. Early game is terrible due to the combination of his terrible mobilty + insane price scaling without dreams of greed + Not being able to support allies properly because of his mobilty.
3. Build diversity is absolutely terrible.

Voltar
Base stats:
- Voltar can now activate his hover throughout any height in his jump ( similar to genji's flutter mechanics ) for increased manueverabilty.
- Acceleration increased slightly.

Healwave
Base stats:
- Healwave now manually charges again on button press. Gains +1 heal, +2 damage per charge which increases every 0.5 secs held. 3 Charge levels overall.
- Healwave now has a base twisted nightmares effect attached to the healing.
- Base damage for nightmares are as follow. Min damage: 6 Max damage: 12
- Healwave now pierces terrain again.
- Minimum heal on healwave increased from 2 > 3.
- Maximum heal on healwave reduced from 9 > 6.
- Charging healwave increase travel speed per charge.
- Healwave base attack speed increased from 75 > 105.
- healwave base range increased from 4.8 > 5.1.
- Voltar gains +1 solar whenever he heals at max charge.

Upgrade
- Happy thoughts now increase min-max heal by +1 per stage.
- Psycho thrust range per tier reduced from 1.6 > 1.5.
- Dreams of greed replaced with a -1 damage debuff for 1.5 secs.
- Psychokinetic repulsion knockback increases per charge and only procs after 1st charge level. 0.1 knockback per charge level. Knockback is now absolute in that it completely overrides momentum and weight like bouncepads.
- Euphoric thoughts is changed to a hot effect on healwave giving +10 heal over 10 secs.
- Twisted nightmares now adds + 4 damage per charge level.

Shieldbot Optional rebalance for healbot.
- Healbot now applies a shield to allies and Voltar.
- Shield is 25% to Voltar and 20% to allies.
- Shield activates once you are in healbot radius and lasts for 2.5 secs, but reapplies for the duration of healbot
- Healbot base healing reduced from 4 > 1.
- Healbot attack speed increased from 100 > 260.
- Holding down the button for healbot while on cooldown will double the attack speed of healbot. But it comes at the cost of reducing duration by 2X during it.
- Range increased to 10.
- Overheal potion changed to an upgrade that allows the doubling of healbot attack speed, to increase double Voltar's healwave attack speed for 4 secs. Duration can also re-apply while Volrar is in healbot radius to counterbalance the 2x shortening of the duration.
- Hydraulic dispenser now adds + 20% shield to Voltar/allies whenever Voltar activates the increased attack speed.
- Energy drink duration reduced from 2 > 1.25 per tier.
- Base cooldown reduced from 14 > 12.5.

*** This is if my healwave ideas work with it and will also organize it better. Now feedback is need for polishing this.

Healbot optional 2
Base stats:
- Healbot range increased from 8 > 10.
- Healbot healing is now split into two Aoe's. Heals +5 near the center and +3 on the outer edges. The +5 healing occurs within half of the Aoe radius meaning anywhere from 5 and below. After the 5 radius it heals +3.
- Base healbot cooldown reduced from 14 > 12 secs.
- Voltar can now manually detonate his healbot with a second button press. Does 25 near the center and 15 on the outer edges. Same Aoe application as above.
- Their is an airming time of 0.5 or 0.6 secs to detonate healbot. I want to add a trigger in which you can switch on/off detonation after the cooldown timer starts for mindgames.

Upgrades
- Energy drink's duration reduced from 2 > 1.5 secs per tier.
- Turret Add-On damage per tier reduced from 2 > 1.
- Turret Add-On Attack speed increased from 200 > 260.
- Hydraulic Sugar Dispenser no longer reduces cooldown. Instead it increases the damage of healbot detonation. Increases damage by +8 near the center and +5 on the outer edges. 2 stages. Price is 160.
- Cortex tank knockback reduced from 1 > 0.5

Suicide Drones
Base stats
- Voltar now starts with 4 drones.
- Drones now have increased range + travel speed
- Drone explosion damage reduced from 12 > 10.
- Aoe of Drone explosion reduced by half but increased travel speed from tossing them.
- Drone army attack speed increased from 48 > 60.

Upgrades
- Drone army now gives Drones 20 health, 50% shield and collison to now be able to meatshield attacks. Also you can heal them for solar again. Price increased from 200 > 230.
- Dark matter shots now apply negative knockback to drone shots/explosion instead of blind.


This was long and tedious so I am taking a break. Will post lonestar changes later along with further modifications to this list. Also to review my Derpl or Genji changes, I added it to my sig below. Also shoutout to Alexeus ( Best Voltar cough..... Me lol ) for coming up with the healbot/healwave ideas that I modified. Will tweak later.

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Last edited by frankie3 on Tue Sep 09, 2014 8:11 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Now time for Lone and Voltar upcoming
 Post Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 5:14 am 
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Drone travel times are too slow as it is. Why do you want to reduce it further?

If Psychokinetic Repulsion is going to have a ministun equivalent, then it has to require a full charge (or rather, the ministun equivalent has to require a full charge).

And could we please just have TN do less damage to players, instead of less damage to droids? If 2.1 TN had dealt less damage to players instead of to droids, it wouldn't have been an issue (after all, Voltar's issues fighting players is the reliability of his damage, not the amount of damage; meanwhile, droids are somewhat difficult for him to deal with).

Lots of creative ideas (some of which I wouldn't mind seeing), but I still think we should consider just adding shieldbot.

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 Post subject: Re: Now time for Lone and Voltar upcoming
 Post Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 10:39 pm 
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reaper with no name wrote:
Drone travel times are too slow as it is. Why do you want to reduce it further?
Yea your right I could leave it as is now. Maybe I should revert the homing buff in favor off a bit more travel speed.
If Psychokinetic Repulsion is going to have a ministun equivalent, then it has to require a full charge (or rather, the ministun equivalent has to require a full charge).
maybe only proc on 2nd or 3rd charfe level since I did reduce its knockback for better accessibility.

And could we please just have TN do less damage to players, instead of less damage to droids? If 2.1 TN had dealt less damage to players instead of to droids, it wouldn't have been an issue (after all, Voltar's issues fighting players is the reliability of his damage, not the amount of damage; meanwhile, droids are somewhat difficult for him to deal with).
Honestly imo I dont think its necessary now since his output is largely dependent on drones + Tn charge.
Lots of creative ideas (some of which I wouldn't mind seeing), but I still think we should consider just adding shieldbot.


Shieldbot would break him when paired with tanks or other support nauts for extreme push or area denial. Healbot already has borderline broken pushing and healing power. Don't want to overdo it.

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 Post subject: Re: Now time for Lone and Voltar upcoming
 Post Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 12:51 pm 
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Exactly. Voltar's healing makes him incredibly effective against DoT and dps builds in their early stages, but worthless against burst.

If he had shieldbot, his healing capabilities could be reduced, leaving him with the same pushing power and better resistance to burst, but he would no longer be as dominating against DoT and dps builds in their early stages (dps builds in their late stages can still destroy Voltar, but that's neither here nor there).

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 Post subject: Re: Now time for Lone and Voltar upcoming
 Post Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 7:44 pm 
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reaper with no name wrote:
If he had shieldbot, his healing capabilities could be reduced, leaving him with the same pushing power and better resistance to burst, but he would no longer be as dominating against DoT and dps builds in their early stages (dps builds in their late stages can still destroy Voltar, but that's neither here nor there).


This, in a nutshell, is what I called for some time ago...
  • Reduce or remove healing capability of Healbot.
  • Buff AA output to cover some (not all) of the HpS removed from Healbot
  • Have Voltar's AA provide solar at a flat rate instead of based on healing (so that buffing his AA wouldn't break his scaling)
  • Fix Voltar's mobility and range issues (like his base range not being enough to hit targets on the ground directly below him after jumping).
  • Change Healbot's name to Shieldbot and stick a shield on it that covers allied units in its AoE (drones get -50% what 'nauts get).

Having more than half of his HpS tied up on the static, easily-killed summon - when healing is his primary function - doesn't promote skilled play with the character.

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 Post subject: Re: Now time for Lone and Voltar upcoming
 Post Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 8:52 pm 
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frankie3 wrote:
Voltar
Base stats:
- Voltar now gains + 0.6 movement while floating to balance out his terrible acceleration.
- Acceleration increased slightly.

Um... why would you increase his speed while floating with the reasoning that he has bad acceleration only to Buff his acceleration at the same time? Seems like one or the other is unnecessary to have (since both is way too big a boon).

frankie3 wrote:
Healwave

Kinda grouping it all up here, but it seems like you REALLY hate healing by base with these changes. I find these changes to be the worst honestly since you are making Voltar very potent for being a Damage dealing with these changes since (as most Voltar 'mains' would say) he already deals plenty of damage throughout his current means. This is just icing on the cake for not having to worry about allies as much (since you will do more for the team to dish out damage to opponents and only really get a boon in the scenario where you sandwich your ally. I'm potentially find with a TN effect by base, to some degree, but you are basically emphasizing how pointless it is to have a Naut with an alternative AA and suggest just giving him more damage to 'fix' his problem. I know its not your intention and you have your own view on the Naut, but I really dislike this conceptually and feels like Voltar becomes less interesting when this is done to him honestly.

frankie3 wrote:
Healbot
Base stats:
- Voltar can now manually detonate his healbot with a second button press. Does 25 near the center and 15 on the outer edges. Same Aoe application as above.
- Their is an airming time of 0.4 secs to detonate healbot. I want to add a trigger in which you can switch on/off detonation after the cooldown timer starts for mindgames.

Actually this was an idea Mr.Esc and I had a while back, but we made Healbot a permanent duration with Medican levels of Regen, but this effect to act more as a Ward (similar to Beacon). It was less Burst heal and more Sustain oriented, but the general idea of additional feature was there. This seems alright, but again its promoting more Burst damage and making Voltar more of a Damage * than a Support Naut. I think thats why we never gave it serious consideration as its not leading Voltar in a good direction.

frankie3 wrote:
Upgrades
- Cortex tank stun reduced from .1 > 0.09.

Oh, small thing here, but this change does nothing within the game. 0.01 as a value is not relevant overall, so its not necessary. Not a criticism, just kinda unnecessary is all.

frankie3 wrote:
Suicide Drones
Upgrades
- Drone army now gives Drones 20 health, 50% shield and collison to now be able to meatshield attacks. Also you can heal them for solar again. Price increased from 200 > 230.

You need more health than this. 20 HP will make them die extremely fast to most things within the game (even with 50% Shield) especially since its only good early on, but thanks to the lowered Healing you've given Voltar he won't be able to keep these things alive very long and forces you to Throw them before anything happens as in a Teamfight you will never be able to try to finish someone off with them. This upgrade is more of a detriment than anything. Also most things will Pierce anyways and you only block a small handful of skills with Collision so this doesn't seem to actually fix any problems from how I'm looking at it. The only 'good' benefit would be that now Voltar wouldn't need Droids anymore since he can go back to rushing Turrets himself and keeping his Drones up (which is bad).



Overall I think I dislike the direction you took Voltar more than anything. I can see the influence that Alexeus had with these since there is way too much focus on a Damage oriented playstyle for Voltar over a Support one (since Alexeus is a great Voltar, but mostly plays it a certain way). Nothing wrong with that mindset, but you've severely gimped Voltar as a Support and trying to push him to be a 'rounded' Naut than doesn't need teammates that much. Probably just different views on Voltar, but I'm not a fan of this direction you took.

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 Post subject: Re: Now time for Lone and Voltar upcoming
 Post Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 1:32 am 
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Guys I just read this and I plan on responding but a bit busy.

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 Post subject: Re: Now time for Lone and Voltar upcoming
 Post Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 3:17 am 
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Voltar is in a really weird posistion at the moment. If Voltar's team is winning Voltar will pretty much confirm that victory as a max heal-healbot will longify pushes an extra 8 seconds as it will constantly outheal the droids unless there is an enemy naut defending. However if Voltar's team is losing will most likely lose as he can't defend that well by himself and due to you taking support over more firepower a lot of times it's really difficult to break through a wall of pushers. I feel we should balance Voltar so how good he does relies on how smart/good he is rather than praying for a good team. Some of these changes fix this situation and will work some probably wouldn't work (Droids are good where they are right now) However I do like how you actually bothered to fix Infi-healbot unless that was Ronimo's idea.

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 Post subject: Re: Now time for Lone and Voltar upcoming
 Post Posted: Sat Sep 06, 2014 11:48 pm 
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Camkitsune wrote:
reaper with no name wrote:
If he had shieldbot, his healing capabilities could be reduced, leaving him with the same pushing power and better resistance to burst, but he would no longer be as dominating against DoT and dps builds in their early stages (dps builds in their late stages can still destroy Voltar, but that's neither here nor there).


This, in a nutshell, is what I called for some time ago...
  • Reduce or remove healing capability of Healbot.
  • Buff AA output to cover some (not all) of the HpS removed from Healbot
  • Have Voltar's AA provide solar at a flat rate instead of based on healing (so that buffing his AA wouldn't break his scaling)
  • Fix Voltar's mobility and range issues (like his base range not being enough to hit targets on the ground directly below him after jumping).
  • Change Healbot's name to Shieldbot and stick a shield on it that covers allied units in its AoE (drones get -50% what 'nauts get).

Having more than half of his HpS tied up on the static, easily-killed summon - when healing is his primary function - doesn't promote skilled play with the character.

I will definitely ponder on some conceptual shieldbot balance. I will add in as a optional rework.

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 Post subject: Re: Now time for Lone and Voltar upcoming
 Post Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2014 12:12 am 
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Clever Girl wrote:
frankie3 wrote:
Voltar
Base stats:
- Voltar now gains + 0.6 movement while floating to balance out his terrible acceleration.
- Acceleration increased slightly.

Um... why would you increase his speed while floating with the reasoning that he has bad acceleration only to Buff his acceleration at the same time? Seems like one or the other is unnecessary to have (since both is way too big a boon).
Overdid it a bit will remove the speed increase.
frankie3 wrote:
Healwave

Kinda grouping it all up here, but it seems like you REALLY hate healing by base with these changes. I find these changes to be the worst honestly since you are making Voltar very potent for being a Damage dealing with these changes since (as most Voltar 'mains' would say) he already deals plenty of damage throughout his current means. This is just icing on the cake for not having to worry about allies as much (since you will do more for the team to dish out damage to opponents and only really get a boon in the scenario where you sandwich your ally. I'm potentially find with a TN effect by base, to some degree, but you are basically emphasizing how pointless it is to have a Naut with an alternative AA and suggest just giving him more damage to 'fix' his problem. I know its not your intention and you have your own view on the Naut, but I really dislike this conceptually and feels like Voltar becomes less interesting when this is done to him honestl
I increased his hps with the base attack speed increase, range increase, better mobilty, Twisted nightmares at base. The damage is needed because of the brawling nature of the game and because of how Voltar functions he needs a deterrent for agressors alongside droids. He can heal faster, is more reliable at supporting and would be too broken if I didn't reduce his healing on healwave. Though I transfer the power into his attack speed and mobility and dont forget he still has healbot which theoretically gets an early game buff with the +5 heal.

frankie3 wrote:
Healbot
Base stats:
- Voltar can now manually detonate his healbot with a second button press. Does 25 near the center and 15 on the outer edges. Same Aoe application as above.
- Their is an airming time of 0.4 secs to detonate healbot. I want to add a trigger in which you can switch on/off detonation after the cooldown timer starts for mindgames.

Actually this was an idea Mr.Esc and I had a while back, but we made Healbot a permanent duration with Medican levels of Regen, but this effect to act more as a Ward (similar to Beacon). It was less Burst heal and more Sustain oriented, but the general idea of additional feature was there. This seems alright, but again its promoting more Burst damage and making Voltar more of a Damage * than a Support Naut. I think thats why we never gave it serious consideration as its not leading Voltar in a good direction.

Depends on the mechanics you add and how you polish it. I don't feel detonation on healbot will push him more towrds burst but actually give healbot more functions then place and heal. Voltar needs a reliable way for healbot to act as a pseudo- area denial skill seperate from healing which is what detonation encourages. I know for a fact I know all Voltar's hate for them to attempt to defend themselves/structures with healbot just for it to be insta bursted by Aoe/dispositoning nauts. Plus at the cost of detonating healbot his healing will be on cooldown which means its the perfect time to strike him and his team. I Should increase detonation airming to .5 - .6 secs.
frankie3 wrote:
Upgrades
- Cortex tank stun reduced from .1 > 0.09.

Oh, small thing here, but this change does nothing within the game. 0.01 as a value is not relevant overall, so its not necessary. Not a criticism, just kinda unnecessary is all.

Can see where your coming from maybe the knockback reduction was enough.

frankie3 wrote:
Suicide Drones
Upgrades
- Drone army now gives Drones 20 health, 50% shield and collison to now be able to meatshield attacks. Also you can heal them for solar again. Price increased from 200 > 230.

You need more health than this. 20 HP will make them die extremely fast to most things within the game (even with 50% Shield) especially since its only good early on, but thanks to the lowered Healing you've given Voltar he won't be able to keep these things alive very long and forces you to Throw them before anything happens as in a Teamfight you will never be able to try to finish someone off with them. This upgrade is more of a detriment than anything. Also most things will Pierce anyways and you only block a small handful of skills with Collision so this doesn't seem to actually fix any problems from how I'm looking at it. The only 'good' benefit would be that now Voltar wouldn't need Droids anymore since he can go back to rushing Turrets himself and keeping his Drones up (which is bad).
We may have two imposing ideas on the matter but drones having hp was never really an issue before they were changed. Just require better positiong to get the most out of them which the mobilty buffs help. Plus voltar can still solo turrets with 1 droid with his broken healing. Though the issues with that I feel lies more in how droids became overbuffed which indirectly broke his pushing game.

Overall I think I dislike the direction you took Voltar more than anything. I can see the influence that Alexeus had with these since there is way too much focus on a Damage oriented playstyle for Voltar over a Support one (since Alexeus is a great Voltar, but mostly plays it a certain way). Nothing wrong with that mindset, but you've severely gimped Voltar as a Support and trying to push him to be a 'rounded' Naut than doesn't need teammates that much. Probably just different views on Voltar, but I'm not a fan of this direction you took.

He can't be specialized around healing too much because in awesomenauts its proven that it doesn't work mechanically or balance wise.I focus my balance on centering the nauts around their main role while rounding out the other traits. Making the naut more of an individual balances them for soloq and teamplay while making it easier to see where balance issues lie. Adding more damage sources is the only fundamental way of balancing his early game. I made sure to keep his values low and then there is still his mobilty in general. Even with these changes he will still be a better support but his healing power wont be broken and he will have more flexiblity in his play. Though we can agree to disagree and don't forget that this is still up for polishing.

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Last edited by frankie3 on Sun Sep 07, 2014 12:35 am, edited 3 times in total.

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