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 Post subject: Re: How we do balance
 Post Posted: Sat Apr 09, 2016 5:03 pm 
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Badass Ketchup wrote:
Fabian wrote:
But the main way I gather feedback is posts made on this forum

If you say what you mean, surely you wouldn't mind explaining this then.

This is a serious upgrade issue which results in you effectively paying 225 solar for -10% damage, +2s cooldown and your burst split across 2 attacks with a 2s interval between them. I don't know about you, but that definitely doesn't sound like much of an upgrade to me. The thread has been on the front page of balance for nearly a month now and no response has been made by you or by anyone else within the design team. You can argue all you want about how you don't respond directly to threads and instead just take feedback, if it wasn't for the fact that this issue is still present within the latest beta released 2 days ago.

This inclines me to believe either, you didn't read a thread which has been on the front page of balance for nearly a month, despite claiming you actually pay attention to the forums, or you just don't care.


I have to agree with Ketchup here, unless someone wants to explain where the flaw in his logic regarding the item (and not his post) lies? What the Hell is the point of a garbage item that makes you worse?

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 Post subject: Re: How we do balance
 Post Posted: Tue May 03, 2016 12:54 am 
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Fabian wrote:
But the main way I gather feedback is posts made on this forum+direct feedback from community members.


Only a fraction of the players use this forum so you're not getting a very good sample size. Here's the real problem:

http://nautsrankings.com/index.php?sear ... a|fabinaab

You have around 900 hours in total in the game you're working on. If I looked up a player on my team and saw that they had less than 1000 hours I wouldn't count on them very much. All time games played 806? Less than 50% win rate? Based on playing with thousands of people in the community I wouldn't think very highly of you if I encountered you under a different name online.

By comparison this is how many hours the developers of Assault Android Cactus have in their game:

Image
Image

They've played it extensively and rank highly on their own leaderboards. They have a good handle on balance because of this. I personally have never been in a game with a Ronimo dev as far as I know, they just don't play enough to encounter regularly.

I'm not trying to suggest you don't care, but it's not uncommon for game developers to make games they themselves enjoy. I'm just saying that designing the game and actually spending time with it give you two different perspectives, and you sound like you badly need some new perspectives.


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 Post subject: Re: How we do balance
 Post Posted: Tue May 03, 2016 4:12 pm 
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A lot of the posts on here bring to light issues that should be resolved by devs and the community working together, and this thread really needs some more attention.

What Lucky (and others) says is true, lots of devs generally have more hours on the games they work on and interact more closely with the community. For example, there's been no indication that any moderator or dev has actually read these suggestions, and since most of the metric data and devstream notes are not public (which could be easily done), it's difficult to assess whether or not said patches and character / balance decisions are done with consideration or not. It really doesn't take too long to skim the balance forum and post on it (or have someone else do it and report on what the community agrees on as a whole), and I'm sure it would improve things significantly.

Yes there are lots of salty people as well, but that's where the essential consideration skills come in; siphoning the irregularities and non-factual complaints from the real balance issues that the majority of the playerbase (well, mainly people who have played nauts for a long time) comes here to mention or to talk about. This really needs attention, as this game has the lowest average players it has had within 3 years and is declining still. This drop is mainly because of the XP system (literally 50% of the nauts friends on my list left because of it...) and scaling and balance issues that occurred because of it, and although some of them are corrected now it still feels like things aren't being balanced fast enough compared to how quickly things are being updated and released (3 new nauts all at once just spelled disaster... it was a rough few weeks). Every patch is making more and more people quit and less join, and if this trend continues things might not end well. Help us help you, as the saying goes :ayla: .

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 Post subject: Re: How we do balance
 Post Posted: Wed May 04, 2016 5:15 pm 
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While I agree that the Ronimo developer team is generally lacking persons with skill reaching into L1, I am pretty sure that the actual amount of playtime for their game is much, much, much higher. They are obviously playtesting their internal builds, how else would they create new nauts?

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 Post subject: Re: How we do balance
 Post Posted: Thu May 05, 2016 1:23 pm 
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r0estir0bbe wrote:
While I agree that the Ronimo developer team is generally lacking persons with skill reaching into L1, I am pretty sure that the actual amount of playtime for their game is much, much, much higher. They are obviously playtesting their internal builds, how else would they create new nauts?

Internal builds count as playtime on steam, they can create/modify characters while playing. They could use other accounts however, or go offline.

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 Post subject: Re: How we do balance
 Post Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 4:11 pm 
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This is definitely not balanced. As a player with 20 games I play vs a guy who has 250 games played on 5 characters. You are kidding and a team full of people who are like me. What do you expect to kill a guy playing for about a year and having a lot of experience? This sounds like a dementia.


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 Post subject: Re: How we do balance
 Post Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 8:59 pm 
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Incredible, another completely imbalanced patch. Sentry is now a harasser, a tank, AND a fighte that can do significant burst. The one thing you don't do: give a tank good aa, and you did it.
There's just no point playing this game anymore. The characters that are imbalanced have not been addressed, the kits are already too strong and you make the strongest ones stronger. Very interesting.

Skolldirs stun needs to go away
derpl's and now sentry's aa need to be nerfed into the ground
frogs speed needs to be nerfed, he already has an escape..
vinnie's dive radius needs to be nerfed
all invulnerabilities need to be turned into shields that reduce damage, not negate it
ayla needs to be put on cooldown for rage again
There should never have been a 3 second stun, how ridiculous


Just can't justify playing this game over other more refined, better thought out games


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 Post subject: Re: How we do balance
 Post Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 9:20 pm 
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TheGenerousFool wrote:
Skolldirs stun needs to go away

I assume you mean Rubber Ducky Choker.

TheGenerousFool wrote:
derpl's and now sentry's aa need to be nerfed into the ground

Take away Derpl's AAs and his only source of damage is a slow-firing Nuke that, while devastating, is... well, slow-firing and easily played around.

Sentry's balance is harder to tweak because of his incredible CC (and I suppose that applies to Derpl as well), so I won't try.

TheGenerousFool wrote:
frogs speed needs to be nerfed, he already has an escape..

"Speed" isn't helpful.

Movement speed? Dash speed? Jump velocity?

TheGenerousFool wrote:
vinnie's dive radius needs to be nerfed

Wait, why?

TheGenerousFool wrote:
all invulnerabilities need to be turned into shields that reduce damage, not negate it

Wait, why?

TheGenerousFool wrote:
ayla needs to be put on cooldown for rage again

Oh, I see.

I see what this is.

TheGenerousFool wrote:
There should never have been a 3 second stun, how ridiculous

Wait, what 3 second stun?

There's a 3 second stun in Awesomenauts? Sign me up for a new main.

TheGenerousFool wrote:
Just can't justify playing this game over other more refined, better thought out games

I'd be more than happy to show you Dota's ropes.

We even have good Black Holes, 6 second stun combos, and a character built entirely around RNG.

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Last edited by The Lord Protector on Wed Jun 06, 2018 11:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: How we do balance
 Post Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 5:22 pm 
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I think this game is in a really good spot right now! :scoop: :scoop:

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 Post subject: Re: How we do balance
 Post Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 11:18 pm 
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wow, a positive comment, they're so rare now I forgot they existed

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