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 Post subject: Re: Upgrades
 Post Posted: Wed May 30, 2018 8:40 am 
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Xelrog wrote:
Can we please make Skolldir's stunpunch 200 solar instead of 210?

In fact, can we make every upgrade in the game that's either 205 or 210 solar just 200?

I don't feel like having to fight your teammates for the base solar and wait a few seconds before going out to start the match because you need ~5 solar for that first purchase upgrade is particularly fun or meaningful in terms of balance. Just annoying.

Please no. I'd rather go the reverse method of making key upgrades more expensive rather then less to incentivize using piggy bank if you want upgrades like Stunpunch right off the bat

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 Post subject: Re: Upgrades
 Post Posted: Wed May 30, 2018 6:12 pm 
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Morrowsaw wrote:
Xelrog wrote:
Can we please make Skolldir's stunpunch 200 solar instead of 210?

In fact, can we make every upgrade in the game that's either 205 or 210 solar just 200?

I don't feel like having to fight your teammates for the base solar and wait a few seconds before going out to start the match because you need ~5 solar for that first purchase upgrade is particularly fun or meaningful in terms of balance. Just annoying.

Please no. I'd rather go the reverse method of making key upgrades more expensive rather then less to incentivize using piggy bank if you want upgrades like Stunpunch right off the bat

But it's already so close to 200 solar. :shrug:

And making mandatory upgrades more expensive doesn't make them less mandatory, it just makes the character's early game worse.

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 Post subject: Re: Upgrades
 Post Posted: Wed May 30, 2018 6:19 pm 
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Xelrog gets it.

Remove Piggy Bank, though.

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 Post subject: Re: Upgrades
 Post Posted: Wed May 30, 2018 7:10 pm 
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Make lesser upgrades great too

Problem solved.

Also since we're talking about piggy bank it's time for my yearly talk about how it should grant a variable amount of solar, based on how far behind you are (criteria tbd). So that it can see more desperation buys in mid game and hopefully create tighter games


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 Post subject: Re: Upgrades
 Post Posted: Wed May 30, 2018 8:52 pm 
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Please stop trying to implement more rubberbanding mechanics.

We've already completely neutered any impact the XP System has, so at least try to pretend we don't want to ruin the Solar System, too. Rubberbanding is not the solution through which you achieve engaging games.

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 Post subject: Re: Upgrades
 Post Posted: Wed May 30, 2018 8:59 pm 
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The Lord Protector wrote:
We've already completely neutered any impact the XP System has

So you want the XP system to have a stronger impact?

The Lord Protector wrote:
Rubberbanding is not the solution through which you achieve engaging games.

But you... don't want rubberbanding?

This isn't really the discussion of the thread, but it's a contradiction, is all. I wouldn't mind a separate thread in which to discuss this because I'm all for a higher-impact, more-rubberbanding XP implementation.

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 Post subject: Re: Upgrades
 Post Posted: Wed May 30, 2018 9:53 pm 
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I'll respond here and then continue in any thread you make.

I, personally, want the XP System in the bin. That much should be clear from my general existence. I don't think an XP System of any meaningful impact will ever work desirably in Awesomenauts because the actual environment (i.e. a jumped-up party game) does not facilitate one. That said, it's not going anywhere.

The winner of a match should be the most consistently good, or in any measure the more consistently successful, team. The winner should not be the team that can most quickly exploit someone's mistake despite having been playing suboptimally for the entire match up to that point. Rubberbanding systems tend to create gameplay where, because of how severe the snapback is should someone make a mistake, things become very slow and very meticulous. Don't misunderstand me: this works in games where that's their nature (see: Dota), but fails spectacularly in games that are supposed to be faster (see: Awesomenauts) and more... well, enjoyable.

Rubberbanding should only serve to initiate the process through which a team begins their comeback. It should not be the comeback in and of itself. HotS, LoL, and Dota all have inherent mechanics through which the losing team can regain control by outplaying their opponents at a different game (map control, farming, mercenaries, map objectives, et cetera) and that makes for interesting* gameplay. This is obviously not the case in Awesomenauts, which creates a massive problem.

Make it easier to gain a level advantage and make that level advantage confer a little more power, but introduce meaningful ways to close that advantage that don't involve the game rewarding you for not losing quite as hard for a period of time. Make the losing team work harder to achieve victory, in other words.

On-topic: remove Piggy Bank, a filthy upgrade for the financially useless.

* Subjective only to the degree that you can rationally argue against the success of the largest eSports in the world. In other words, reasonably objectively true.

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 Post subject: Re: Upgrades
 Post Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2018 6:52 pm 
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Can some sort of backdoor mechanics be implemented for this game? Something that doesn't take backdooring out completely, only makes it very difficult, like may be dealing half damage to structures if u don't have droids till a certain distance..?

And can Raelynn's snipe only hit the first naut targeted, rather than all nauts in line?

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 Post subject: Re: Upgrades
 Post Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 9:36 pm 
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arghyad1 wrote:
Can some sort of backdoor mechanics be implemented for this game? Something that doesn't take backdooring out completely, only makes it very difficult, like may be dealing half damage to structures if u don't have droids till a certain distance..?

And can Raelynn's snipe only hit the first naut targeted, rather than all nauts in line?

I think you're in the wrong place to propose these, but I'll still bite.
Second one, I would greatly discourage such a thing, it rewards Raelynn for angling her shot in a way that hits multiple enemies, and it's typically on them for remaining in such a line, especially against an attack that is arming in front of them.
First one, yes, I would very much love to see this in action, I think it would be in the best interest in Awesomenauts to have a system that opposes backdooring, but does not completely remove it, one that makes backdooring not extinct, but rather makes it a greater risk.

That being said, if it were to be dependant on droids, I think the idea should be canned entirely, droids are far too unreliable.

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