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 Post subject: Re: Monkey Hand and MALZ replacements.
 Post Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 9:13 am 
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Oh no I'm doing it again
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I dug up the older metrics to show what I meant about low usage, and while it sees very low usage it also shows that it trends slightly higher in the lower leagues. The only thing with a similarly low usage are Chillas Wax Candles (Slow on AA), and pre-speed buff Wormhole (Orb Range upgrade), which both had the opposite effect.

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Of course this is old, but for the sake of MALZ an upgrade that hasn't been changed since its release I believe it's interesting to note.

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 Post subject: Re: Monkey Hand and MALZ replacements.
 Post Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 5:17 am 
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Usually I don't post when it's something not Raelynn related, but I want to point out Morrow dug up these Metrics at one in the morning.
What a trouper.

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 Post subject: Re: Monkey Hand and MALZ replacements.
 Post Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:40 am 
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I still believe that these changes should make it to the game in an attempt to change the characters.

They were promised in 4.7 yet they didn't make it. I'm moving them back up in the hopes to reignite some discussion on the topic, and because I feel like Jasper forgot about them or something

So that people don't have to go back into the previous pages to find the discussion of this thread I'll list the changes Jasper proposed here

Rae AA rework
Jasper wrote:
-Protoblaster, range decreased by 5%.
-Receding ponytail, now gives a damage bonus of up 25% based on distance traveled by the bullet.
-Monkey hand, now increases projectile range, speed and ponytail bonus by 30%.
-Lucky Cat Air Freshener, now increases the damage dealt by droids within blaster range by 80%. (this would include flyers and superdroids in order to make it competitive)


MALZ Rework
Jasper wrote:
None of these replacements are urgent when it comes to balancing these characters. However, build and playstyle variety is obviously an important goal.

When it comes to MALZ here are some of the ideas I saw and like so far
-Heal after teleport
-Knockback pulse before teleport (would allow some tricky plays where you knock enemies towards where you teleport, suck em closer then firebruh)
-Pulses or trails which speed up allies


I'd rather this discussion continue rather then let it die, and have nothing happen.

Feel free to kill me for the necro instead though :drool:

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 Post subject: Re: Monkey Hand and MALZ replacements.
 Post Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 7:00 pm 
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does rae really need more upgrades that reward her for keeping her distance?

also the droid attack bonus is a weird synergy when pushing turrets. she has to be close to the droids to give them their bonus but then she'll presumably do less turret damage herself if she picks ponytail? I guess that's interesting, but it also seems kind of goofy.


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 Post subject: Re: Monkey Hand and MALZ replacements.
 Post Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 8:32 pm 
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nah, these rae ideas don't absolutely sell for me, even if it does make monkey hand buildable tough.


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 Post subject: Re: Monkey Hand and MALZ replacements.
 Post Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:37 pm 
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Scaling distance values need to die on Voltar and I certainly don't want them on Raelynn.

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 Post subject: Re: Monkey Hand and MALZ replacements.
 Post Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 10:00 pm 
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Meh I think that for a damage upgrade it's far more interesting to give Raelynn an upgrade that gives her a slight weakness to melee characters. While also making her AA row have less linear upgrades. Funny how the changes went from a rather positive view overall to a negative one as first reactions the the thread being revived.

Also the purpose of Lucky Cat was that range would synergize from what I could tell since the damage upgrade for droids was = to blaster range so

range up = droid aura range up.

Lucky Cat especially wasn't a popular idea overall, but I wanted to clarify that they would synergize not counter each other.

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 Post subject: Re: Monkey Hand and MALZ replacements.
 Post Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 12:01 am 
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Morrowsaw wrote:
Funny how the changes went from a rather positive view overall to a negative one as first reactions the the thread being revived.


Wait 3 months and try again :ksenia:


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 Post subject: Re: Monkey Hand and MALZ replacements.
 Post Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 2:32 am 
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What if it was just ponytail that gave rae -10% starting damage and something like 30% ending damage? that would be a bit interesting. Except HC bomb. That would not be fun.

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 Post subject: Re: Monkey Hand and MALZ replacements.
 Post Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 10:24 pm 
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My problem with range damage is that I think it would be a lot more effective on defensive builds than offensive, where you can easily hit the enemy by remaining the maximum distance back, and will likely buy pierce to get the most out of it, which would, ironically, probably be the most effective against melee nauts in that playstyle as Raelynn could sit a safe distance plucking at their health if they try to attack the turret.

I've always been more of a fan of marking or consecutive shots, stuff that won't automatically be made a ton better by pierce (Bear in mind when I say consecutive shots, I mean on the same opponent as to not make HC an instant burst from hitting droids beforehand.) I like the idea of an aura that has synergy with attack range, and by like it, I think it's a neat idea, I wouldn't do a thing like that with Raelynn, but it is a neat idea, although it's probably my personal beef of taking one of her big AA damage upgrades and converting it into a thing that makes droids hit harder, and the only thing I actually trust droids in doing is handing over 5 solar once I'm done bullying them. And that's what I'm worried about a lot of these ideas, Raelynn's AA upgrades might be boring compared to other upgrades, but plenty are as reliable as they are simple. Which I think is especially important for a starting naut.

So I'm sort of in this weird situation where the only one I'm confident is a good idea is increasing monkey hand's travel time along with range, but at the same time, that alone most likely won't make it worth taking since as I've said earlier, Raelynn's range is already good, the upgrade is overshadowed by superior options, and as odd as it sounds for me to say this after disregarding ideas that would allow it to, it lacks any synergy with other upgrades except maybe and HC pierce build, but at that point you should just buy more damage.

In short, I think that too many replacements with the reliable AA upgrades with incredibly niche ones like these might end up further encouraging a safer playstyle, and from my experiences in Awesomenauts, having Raelynn be any more passive is as desirable as a half-off lobotomy coupon carefully placed on a bear trap.

I'd replace one damage upgrade, preferably receding ponytail, try to make monkey hand useful, and maybe take a second look at alien hand. But that's just my two cents on the matter.

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The Lord Protector wrote:
The solution to this is having droids that are actually a threat instead of a joke.


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