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 Post subject: Re: Lets talk about Dizzy.
 Post Posted: Fri May 04, 2018 5:50 pm 
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A thread about Dizzy? Finally a place where I, a Dizzy main, can talk about all the good and bad that resulted from the latest pa-
Militis wrote:
:table:

I get it. She's fast and all over the place. Could we at least nerf her HP a little seeing as she can dash multiple screen lengths at a time? Or maybe a second of cool down between dashes? I mean, either would be great.

:facepalm:

Okay okay I'm just going to do what I was originally going to do:
Let's look at the latest patch notes for Dizzy and discuss the good, the meh, the bad, and the OMGWTFBBQ How did that get passed Q&A?

The Good
Jasper wrote:
-Multi Dash, time between dashes increased from 0.3 to 0.4 seconds.

This is why things need to be seen instead of read. Reading "added 0.1 to a thing" doesn't really fully explain the impact of this change. Beyond zorking with my muscle memory this change really helps lessen Dizzy's overall speed, particularly when using multiple dashes to cover large stretches of horizontal distance. (Chasing or escaping, in other words.)
This change doesn't make Dizzy feel slow, but does lower Dizzy's overal mobility and makes her easier to hit in her brief moments of vulnerability. It's a very good change that I'm happy to see.
Jasper wrote:
-Bubble shot, size increased by 50%.

Quality of life change that makes it much easier to hit with Dizzy's gun.
Jasper wrote:
-Graffiti artist, price increased from 165 to 190.

OP upgrade. Price adjustment does help.
Jasper wrote:
-Tipi teal, merged to one stage of 30% range and speed increase for 140 solar.

UP upgrade. Price adjustment does help.

The Meh
Jasper wrote:
-Explosive Clone, cooldown increased from 6 to 7 seconds.

Rather unecessary change. It does lower Dizzy's overall damage output (in compensation for the Dash damage increase) but considering that Explosive Clone would primarily be used as poke or finishing burst, the extra second of cooldown doesn't impact this ability much. Especially with other upgrades causing Explosive Clone's power level to rise.
Jasper wrote:
-Backstage pass, increase the range of your Multi Dash by 50% when you have the maximum amount of dashes charged.

Turned an escape upgrade into an initation upgrade. A good change that promotes more active play (as opposed to more passive play) and also indirectly fixes the problem of spamming the last dash for "unlimited" +25% range dashes. But now a fairly underused upgrade is pretty much never picked up because it screws with people's muscle memory, which is a huge part of playing Dizzy.

The Bad
Jasper wrote:
-Multi Dash, damage per dash increased from 150 to 160.

Another "needs to be seen" change, the mere 10 damage does give Dizzy a nice boost in her early game to make her more impactful. The problem is that her damage upgrade wasn't changed to compensate, which pushes her damage a little bit over the edge. Well that, and one other big change.
Jasper wrote:
-"Purple Prince" lipstick, now also slows enemies when they leave the bubble as well as when they are hit by the explosion.

While not nearly as impactful as the change to Glittering Dungarees, this ability greatly increases Dizzy's crowd control power, which is not something she needs on top of all her other strengths. #StopMakingEveryoneAGeneralist

The OMGWTFBBQ how did that get passed Q&A?
Jasper wrote:
-Walkbot Pro, speed up dash reload time by 30% when you are near to enemies.

This change. This change. This change. This change alone pushed Dizzy over the edge into, while perhaps not "overpowered" territory, definetly into the "too strong" territory.

Let's start with the obvious: Walkbot Pro charges near enemy Droids. :redcheer:
Is this intended? This honestly seems like a bug. And if it's a bug: it's a pretty big one. For all intensive purposes Walkbot still has its original effect along with this new effect.
As for it's new effect... Dizzy is 30% more mobile and does 30%*well not exactly 30%, but 30% more dash damage. Something more like 10% more damage, but the value is not to be ignored more damage in a team fight. I really don't think I need to explain why this is a problem.
Basically the new Walkbot Pro gives Dizzy an even easier out of a bad team fight, as well as consistently more impact in a team fight in general.

If I can flex my pony a bit: old Walkbot Pro was an Ursa Minor. New Walkbot Pro is an Ursa Major.
The attempted change to a small problem has created another problem that is exponentially bigger than the original one.
I sincerely hope that Walkbot Pro will be changed or even reverted in a patch soon. While Dizzy was never a popular character, this upgrade alone pushes her power level up massively. And while Dizzy mains like me can feel happy abusing it, it's only a matter of time before it becomes overly meta.
Jasper wrote:
-Matching Glittery Dungarees, now reduces the cooldown for the next Explosive Clone by 3 seconds when it hits an enemy Awesomenaut.

I did say that either this upgrade or "Purple Prince" lipstick would become mandatory after its change. What I didn't realize is that Walkbot Pro was the sleeper OP change in Dizzy's updates, and it along with Fan Mail makes Dizzy's clone cooldown fairly obsolete. That being said: this upgrade causes a lot of problems. If we assume the best possible outcome always happens, this upgrade gives Explosive Clone a 4 second cool-down, which is insane. It's only further accented by all the crutch upgrade Dizzy has at her disposal to hit her clone more easily. Backwards High Cap makes it much easier to hit Explosive Clone in a team fight, and Golden G Necklace (while still massively overpriced) essentially makes it impossible to miss with the clone.
This upgrade isn't nearly as much of a problem as Walkbot Pro, but it still provides a huge boost in power for very little cost. I would've honestly just prefered a flat -2 seconds to the ability, since that would be more balanced overall and allow for more strategic usage of the ability (area denial) as opposed to "lol combos."

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 Post subject: Re: Lets talk about Dizzy.
 Post Posted: Sun May 06, 2018 7:28 pm 
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Dizzy feels very overwhelming lately. Hard to catch and punish. There definitely needs to be a downtime between dashes because a good Dizzy will just insta-kill you with 3 dashes. As some characters you don't stand a chance.


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 Post subject: Re: Lets talk about Dizzy.
 Post Posted: Sun May 06, 2018 8:38 pm 
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Sam! wrote:
I just want to see the dash damage buff reverted, I don't think it was needed. Dizzy already did a ton of damage and now she gets over 200 damage dashes fairly early in the game. She's a little less spammy on the amount of dashes she has (but not really since fake band aid exists), which was what people disliked about playing against her.. but now you just die in one combo which is equally as annoying.

I think she could stand to having the AoE on her AA removed, help reduce her being a clearing queen that she is. I don't know why her AA has AoE in the first place.

Im still baffelled over the buff to her dash dmg, I don't think she needed it, although I don't think it's catapulted her up in terms of power. She was strong last patch, and is still decently strong this patch; tbh she's been strong since her release.

I don't want to see her AoE AA removed. IMO I'm fine with nauts clearing at a medium speed with thier AA, what I hate is when they can burst them down with skills, or can't clear at a resonable speed at all. Personally, I would make graffiti artist nauts only, and the reduce her base clone dmg vs droids slightly.

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 Post subject: Re: Lets talk about Dizzy.
 Post Posted: Tue May 15, 2018 10:58 pm 
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GuyBrush wrote:
I did say that either this upgrade or "Purple Prince" lipstick would become mandatory after its change. What I didn't realize is that Walkbot Pro was the sleeper OP change in Dizzy's updates, and it along with Fan Mail makes Dizzy's clone cooldown fairly obsolete. That being said: this upgrade causes a lot of problems. If we assume the best possible outcome always happens, this upgrade gives Explosive Clone a 4 second cool-down, which is insane.

Just the exact thing I mentioned about during beta test. Know what some people told me? "Dizzy was kinda meant to be a spammy character"
The only thought that warms my heart - you rarely confront high-skilled Dizzy player nowadays.


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 Post subject: Re: Lets talk about Dizzy.
 Post Posted: Wed May 16, 2018 8:51 pm 
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Sevenecho wrote:
GuyBrush wrote:
I did say that either this upgrade or "Purple Prince" lipstick would become mandatory after its change. What I didn't realize is that Walkbot Pro was the sleeper OP change in Dizzy's updates, and it along with Fan Mail makes Dizzy's clone cooldown fairly obsolete. That being said: this upgrade causes a lot of problems. If we assume the best possible outcome always happens, this upgrade gives Explosive Clone a 4 second cool-down, which is insane.

Just the exact thing I mentioned about during beta test. Know what some people told me? "Dizzy was kinda meant to be a spammy character"
The only thought that warms my heart - you rarely confront high-skilled Dizzy player nowadays.

Dizzy really isn't a "spammy" character though. She's classified as a Brawler, not a harasser. If she was classified as a harasser I'd tolerate a 4 second cooldown on Explosive Clone, with a caviat of the ability not doing around an unupgraded Clunk explode in damage when fully upgraded.

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 Post subject: Re: Lets talk about Dizzy.
 Post Posted: Wed May 16, 2018 8:58 pm 
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I don't see how someone being classified as a brawler prevents them from being able to spam their abilities.

Ayla, if she's moving between Rage and Chain Whack, will be spamming Rage. Gnaw can brawl quite effectively by spamming weedlings (with some timing practice). Penny's not adverse to some spam, with the right upgrades.

Harassers are really just those 'Nauts that can consistently inflict damage on enemies at a variety of ranges. Rocco and Coco come to mind. Raelynn, perhaps, with poor Snipe usage. Leon as well, if he throws the game and builds clones. Even Chucho, if he's accurate with his Sticky Bombs and isn't afraid of getting close. I'm probably forgetting someone.

Usually, yes, this harassment is achieved with some level of spam, but it's not the only caveat, as you put it.

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 Post subject: Re: Lets talk about Dizzy.
 Post Posted: Thu May 17, 2018 5:11 am 
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I actually find Dizzy really underpowered after her nerfs. The clone is slower now, her dashes take longer to perform and Walk-O-Bot is terrible now since you can you quickly charge it up again and get full dashes before the fight starts. Now you are always 1 or 2 dashes empty when you face an enemy.


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 Post subject: Re: Lets talk about Dizzy.
 Post Posted: Thu May 17, 2018 11:44 am 
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Hero wrote:
I actually find Dizzy really underpowered after her nerfs. The clone is slower now, her dashes take longer to perform and Walk-O-Bot is terrible now since you can you quickly charge it up again and get full dashes before the fight starts. Now you are always 1 or 2 dashes empty when you face an enemy.


Her clone was untouched, also they increased the time in between dashs by 0.1 second (wow so slow now). As a matter of fact her buffs heavily out weighed whatever nerfs she got. I have no idea what youre going on about. She isn't getting buffed she needs more nerfs.

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 Post subject: Re: Lets talk about Dizzy.
 Post Posted: Thu May 17, 2018 12:26 pm 
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S_Fits wrote:
Her clone was untouched...

Yeah, no.

Although I don't know how Dizzy's fairly tame nerfs (and QoL buffs, along with some upgrades gaining a bit of power) make her underpowered.

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Say no to SAM wrote:
Give this guy a duck for making such a good job with this thread

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Give this guy a duck lololol

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 Post subject: Re: Lets talk about Dizzy.
 Post Posted: Thu May 17, 2018 1:52 pm 
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The Lord Protector wrote:
S_Fits wrote:
Her clone was untouched...

Yeah, no.

Although I don't know how Dizzy's fairly tame nerfs (and QoL buffs, along with some upgrades gaining a bit of power) make her underpowered.

Most of Dizzy's buffs and nerfs were fairly tame and were basically Quality of Life. The thing is just that primarily Walkbot as well as Glittery Pants got reworked into a state that is far too powerful to the rest of her kit.
Walkbot was never really a problem, at least from my experience. It could be reverted tomorrow and very few would care. As for Glittery Pants I'd just make it a flat -2.5 second cool-down upgrade, as that would give Dizzy more area denial play options and also decrease the overall power level of this upgrade.

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