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 Post subject: Rocco Buff Proposals. (with some numbers!)
 Post Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 1:05 pm 
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Lets face it:
Rocco has needed a lot of changes for a while, I'm not talking about a rework however, but rather an update. The standards for what is considered acceptable or honest have changed since his release so I'd like to see these changes tested in a balance beta sometime, and I'll throw in some extra minor proposals. With that out of the way, ¡Lets Begin!

-health increased from 1350 to 1400.

-Precision shot

Compensating for his poor scalling into lategame:

-Base damage increased from 330 to 360.


Triple stage items don't show up very often in the game anymore and only a few abandoned nauts still have these despite not needing them. Rocco for instance, has 2 of these which are rarely picked, this change should make classics more relevant for the PS row:


-Classics: removed 1 stage, damage increase per stage increased from 10% to 12%
(12/24? yeah yeah its generic and overdone. sue me)
-price increased from 135 to 150

Arguably the worst item on his row, despite being a relatively cheap single stage upgrade, it has importance to the now dead snipe spec, but does not offer a lot in terms of lategame potential.


-magnetic police light: now also reduces precision shot's charge time by 10%

-Vengeance

Cc rocco is about the most undesirable form in which a cc proc naut could come, considering there's nauts who not only have way more priority than him, but are also able to stack higher percentages of slow on their own, these changes should help building slow feel rewarding instead of punishing.


Not exactly the most honest pick or the most compatible item for a character like rocco, replacing it with something less extreme.

-Little Johnny: changed into a slow on hit. 8% on lob shot and 12% on charged shot

-added a 2nd stage, price reduced from 195 to 165


-Vulpe bow string: too pricey for a triple stage upgrade (for 2018 standards)

-priced reduced from 130 to 100 per stage.


-Rapid arrows

Ever since rapid arrows got buffed with aoe, some of his upgrades were affected both possitively and negatively, the cooldown reduction however needs a simple number change the most.

-defused hawk bomb: cooldown reduction reduced from 0.2s to 0.1s



------------------------------------------Other...----------------------------------
These are other changes that don't exactly connect with what I proposed above but that I'd like to at the very least bring up in some shape or form:

-Cutlet frills Ghilly suit:
-now increases the attackspeed of rapid arrows during vengeance by 15% price increased to 190 solar

-sticky cops mustache:
-attackspeed increase reduced from 20% to 15% per stage.

-magnetic police light:
-price dropped to 100 solar.

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 Post subject: Re: Rocco Buff Proposals. (with some numbers!)
 Post Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 5:16 pm 
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yikes

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 Post subject: Re: Rocco Buff Proposals. (with some numbers!)
 Post Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 5:40 pm 
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why do you want to buff the pigeon


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 Post subject: Re: Rocco Buff Proposals. (with some numbers!)
 Post Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 6:59 pm 
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Glad to see everyone is being super constructive :voltarroll:

Anyway I'll give my opinion

_Olaff wrote:
-health increased from 1350 to 1400.

Hp buffs like this are very minor. I personally don't feel like Rocco struggles with survivability though.
_Olaff wrote:
-Base damage increased from 330 to 360.
Triple stage items don't show up very often in the game anymore and only a few abandoned nauts still have these despite not needing them. Rocco for instance, has 2 of these which are rarely picked
-Classics: removed 1 stage, damage increase per stage increased from 10% to 12%
-price increased from 135 to 150

I can agree with this. I rarely see Classics being run for just this reason. 3 stage items are rare, and not very strong for just this reason. The number changes also keep his PS levels similar to his current ones so it's not an insane buff. Rather just a price change for it.
_Olaff wrote:
Magnetic Police Light: now also reduces precision shot's charge time by 10%

Kinda minor unsure it it'd even be noticeable perhaps make it 40% as well, and increase the price of the upgrade in exchange?
_Olaff wrote:
-Little Johnny: changed into a slow on hit. 8% on lob shot and 12% on charged shot
-added a 2nd stage, price reduced from 195 to 165

Would this mean it'd add further slow to PS? I don't really get what this is supposed to be to be honest. I think Little Johnny is unique and fine though.
_Olaff wrote:
-Vulpe bow string: too pricey for a triple stage upgrade (for 2018 standards)

-priced reduced from 130 to 100 per stage.

Yeah sure. This upgrade has always been expensive for what it does.
_Olaff wrote:
-defused hawk bomb: cooldown reduction reduced from 0.2s to 0.1s

Nah making this upgrade 50% worse is just not the way to fix it. I think it's fine as is

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 Post subject: Re: Rocco Buff Proposals. (with some numbers!)
 Post Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 9:39 pm 
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yikes :chew:

Rocco is in a good spot, and really doesn't need any buffs.

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 Post subject: Re: Rocco Buff Proposals. (with some numbers!)
 Post Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 10:35 pm 
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Please understand that a 50 hp buff is not minor.

50 hp buffs/nerfs have sent nauts from S tier to redundancy in the past.

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 Post subject: Re: Rocco Buff Proposals. (with some numbers!)
 Post Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 11:46 pm 
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The average health of an Awesomenaut was around 1,300 HP the last time I calculated it.

50 HP makes up ~4% of the "average". It's not minor and will contribute to swinging changes one way or another, but it alone does not dumpster a 'Naut.

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 Post subject: Re: Rocco Buff Proposals. (with some numbers!)
 Post Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 10:47 am 
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+1 for fixing triple stage ups. Increased charge speed with MPL seems legit too, 40% as Morrowsaw suggested (it also will make tapshots a bit different with that upgrade so it will change playstyle depending on if one got the upgrade or not). Other than that the Bird Person is fine I believe. Being a bit squishy and vulnerable to CCs is compensated with his insane ranged DPS.

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 Post subject: Re: Rocco Buff Proposals. (with some numbers!)
 Post Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 11:41 am 
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triple stage upgrades are fine, period.

If anything, lower the price.


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 Post subject: Re: Rocco Buff Proposals. (with some numbers!)
 Post Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 3:18 pm 
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_olaffff wrote:
-health increased from 1350 to 1400.

His health is fine. Don't touch it.

_olaffff wrote:
-Precision shot
-Base damage increased from 330 to 360.

360 would heavily buff tapshots, and further make classics bad. The base effect of precision is fine as it is. As we were discussing on discord, I'd think having it do 350 for fully charged and 300 for tap would make it slightly more useful.
You do not simply give 30 damage to a naut who has great damage when you can invest into it.

_olaffff wrote:
-Classics: removed 1 stage, damage increase per stage increased from 10% to 12%
(12/24? yeah yeah its generic and overdone. sue me)
-price increased from 135 to 150

You go from spending 13.5 solar per 1% of damage to 12.5 solar per 1% damage, at a lesser total damage. The upgrade is slightly more cost effective but you're losing out 6% lategame. Of which rocco is a lategame naut. If classics gave 11% per stage at 130 it would be much more useful. If the previous thing about tapshots is added it might just need a price buff.

_olaffff wrote:
-magnetic police light: now also reduces precision shot's charge time by 10%

Police light works well, and doesn't need tacking on of extra effects. The reason why it's considered bad is that it relies on precision shots awful damage.

_olaffff wrote:
-Little Johnny: changed into a slow on hit. 8% on lob shot and 12% on charged shot

-added a 2nd stage, price reduced from 195 to 165

Bonus slow instead of a aa range 1s ranged aoe stun would be rather helpful. Maybe the numbers are too high and should both be 8%

_olaffff wrote:
-Vulpe bow string: too pricey for a triple stage upgrade (for 2018 standards)

-priced reduced from 130 to 100 per stage.

Rocco kinda needs a pricewall for slow, but not that steep or shallow. Maybe 115. It's still pickable against certain comps.

_olaffff wrote:
Ever since rapid arrows got buffed with aoe, some of his upgrades were affected both possitively and negatively, the cooldown reduction however needs a simple number change the most.

_olaffff wrote:
-defused hawk bomb: cooldown reduction reduced from 0.2s to 0.1s

Killing this upgrade completely isn't the best course of action. It's good but is nowhere near mandatory or even overpowered.


_olaffff wrote:
-Cutlet frills Ghilly suit:
-now increases the attackspeed of rapid arrows during vengeance by 15% price increased to 190 solar

We don't need more attackspeed. Changing it to proc on more than 1 enemy would help him brawl though.

_olaffff wrote:
-sticky cops mustache:
-attackspeed increase reduced from 20% to 15% per stage.

Upgrade is really good. Valve please fix

_olaffff wrote:
-magnetic police light:
-price dropped to 100 solar.

Eh, if precision shot was good it'd be good.

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