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 Post subject: Re: Patch 3.1 beta 1 is Live!
 Post Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2016 4:29 am 
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MurlocAggroB wrote:
The only one I 100% agree on is Neon Nitro Muffler,


I think people just aren't using Muffler correctly. All you have to do is tap the opposite direction for split-second and you can tag enemies with the exhaust DoT even when they are in front of you.

It's a staple for my Chucho builds right now, since it works so well with the cookie-cutter One Arm Chameleon initiation tactics. Mount your bike, dash while shooting and tap away for a split second to apply the full DoT, dismount, stun, stick, stun again, then melt with AA att speed.

If I had to name any Chucho upgrades that need buffs, it would be Blackmail, Trick-Up-Your-Sleeve, and Anti-Zork Windscreen Wipers. AKA, sticking even after the initial throw, spawning minibombs, and extra speed on Nitro Boost.

Blackmail is bad because an opponent has to be not paying much attention to walk over a Sticky, or they have to be so close to the point it lands that they don't have time to react and move elsewhere... which means you were probably in range to just hit the initial stick anyway, and you missed.

Trick-Up-Your Sleeve is bad because it pretty much only works well with Blackmail also active, and even then... most opponents who are paying attention are going to quickly realize that your Sticky Bombs now spawn minibombs on detonation, and just avoid them. I think the complaints about this upgrade caused it to be buffed from 70% to 80% damage or something, but it doesn't matter how strong it is when the real problem is competent enemies avoiding the damage entirely. Hopefully instead of another stealth buff that's a slight increase in damage, this upgrade can be reworked to have a new delivery mechanism for the minibomb(s).

Anti-Zork Windscreen Wipers doesn't seem that bad in theory, its just a little underwhelming right now. In this case, I don't think a rework is necessary, just a decent numbers buff to the speed increase it gives during Nitro Boost.

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 Post subject: Re: Patch 3.1 beta 1 is Live!
 Post Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2016 6:07 am 
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^Are Windscreen Wipers really in need of some numbers-buffs though? It felt fine to me; your speed when boosting is not only 40% faster but you boost over a longer distance too. You travel so fast and far that it not only makes escapes much easier but you can join in on a fight a screen away easily.


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 Post subject: Re: Patch 3.1 beta 1 is Live!
 Post Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2016 7:23 am 
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doofball wrote:
I think people just aren't using Muffler correctly. All you have to do is tap the opposite direction for split-second and you can tag enemies with the exhaust DoT even when they are in front of you.

No idea what people are talking about with it being unreliable damage. The hitbox is pretty big and it's easy to tap away for one fire frame.

doofball wrote:
Blackmail is bad because an opponent has to be not paying much attention to walk over a Sticky, or they have to be so close to the point it lands that they don't have time to react and move elsewhere... which means you were probably in range to just hit the initial stick anyway, and you missed.

I think this upgrade could be improved if it had extended lifetime while on the ground. At the moment it feels like it's almost a pseudo-mine upgrade but it just doesn't have the lifetime to make the cut for the slot.

doofball wrote:
Trick-Up-Your Sleeve is bad because it pretty much only works well with Blackmail also active, and even then... most opponents who are paying attention are going to quickly realize that your Sticky Bombs now spawn minibombs on detonation, and just avoid them. I think the complaints about this upgrade caused it to be buffed from 70% to 80% damage or something, but it doesn't matter how strong it is when the real problem is competent enemies avoiding the damage entirely. Hopefully instead of another stealth buff that's a slight increase in damage, this upgrade can be reworked to have a new delivery mechanism for the minibomb(s).

Would love to throw out the 2nd sticky like Tom's suggested before.

doofball wrote:
Anti-Zork Windscreen Wipers doesn't seem that bad in theory, its just a little underwhelming right now. In this case, I don't think a rework is necessary, just a decent numbers buff to the speed increase it gives during Nitro Boost.

Eh I dunno, this upgrade seems fine. Maybe a merge + price shift between the two values. The bonus given by rank 1 isn't really noticeable compared to what you get when you max it out.

Another upgrade I feel doesn't really add much is the +AoE, although that might be alleviated with more synergy between the bomb AOE itself and the effects you can put on it. Maybe if +slow had a (tiny) slow in the AoE or the regular slow was lowered then shared over the targets it'd be a pick with more synergies. It's not a bad upgrade as is though.

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 Post subject: Re: Patch 3.1 beta 1 is Live!
 Post Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2016 6:44 pm 
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FishmanDerp wrote:
I think this upgrade could be improved if it had extended lifetime while on the ground. At the moment it feels like it's almost a pseudo-mine upgrade but it just doesn't have the lifetime to make the cut for the slot.

even if it increased lifetime, it adds effectively nothing, since the only people who are walking into it are people who aren't paying attention. however, perhaps it could have a slight pull for half a second, if it lands on the ground? makes a little bit more sense since Chucho is blackmailing them into walking towards it

FishmanDerp wrote:
Would love to throw out the 2nd sticky like Tom's suggested before.

amen to that

FishmanDerp wrote:
Eh I dunno, [Anti-Zork Windscreen Wipers] seems fine. Maybe a merge + price shift between the two values. The bonus given by rank 1 isn't really noticeable compared to what you get when you max it out.

to be fair, most percentage upgrades are remarkably improved when doubled

FishmanDerp wrote:
Another upgrade I feel doesn't really add much is the +AoE, although that might be alleviated with more synergy between the bomb AOE itself and the effects you can put on it. Maybe if +slow had a (tiny) slow in the AoE or the regular slow was lowered then shared over the targets it'd be a pick with more synergies. It's not a bad upgrade as is though.


I kinda feel like it's fine as is, given that its prime thing is synergy and pushing people apart

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 Post subject: Re: Patch 3.1 beta 1 is Live!
 Post Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2016 5:06 am 
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What if Trick-up-your-sleeve halved the bomb's damage, but it exploded twice? It would make whoever it stuck to a liability to stay around for a long time which could act as a counter to support/healer oriented teams.

And again, can we please get those platforms back in place on the bottom lane of the Starstorm map?
I threw a hissy fit about it while it was in pre-alpha and was glad they finally got put in, but now it's back to being a miserable broken mess for bottom lane. This is going to be especially bad with how strong and popular Yuri is in the current meta.

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 Post subject: Re: Patch 3.1 beta 1 is Live!
 Post Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2016 4:37 am 
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so is there any plan on nerfing solar krab burgers yet
gnaw's even more invalidaded and hardcountered by utilities than he ever was, and it's a first pick in general since you're impossible to force off the lane as long as you dump a measely 100 solar into it


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 Post subject: Re: Patch 3.1 beta 1 is Live!
 Post Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2016 3:37 pm 
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My main gripe with it is that it's cheaper than medican and infinitely more useful at the same time.


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 Post subject: Re: Patch 3.1 beta 1 is Live!
 Post Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2016 11:27 pm 
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A part of me actually wonders if this is a good time to completely replace Medican with SKB, and then slightly nerf SKB and tweak around the placement and respawn rates of solar coins for maps where necessary. Then it'd be easier to raise DoT to a more respectable place, because Medican by its nature will be bound to get itself involved in every debate concerning DoT.

That or replace all Wraithstones with SKB, since it feels like a good SKB was what Wraithstone was always trying to be.

Or maybe just respectably nerf both current medican and SKB. Medican should give low regen for it's lazy yet guaranteed regen, SKB for if you want to step it up and reward active solar gathering with regen. I still find it problematic though for some characters to have access to both utilities, since we gotta balance the two around both being taken on a single character for some characters..


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 Post subject: Re: Patch 3.1 beta 1 is Live!
 Post Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2016 2:50 am 
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I'd be fine with medican getting removed or reworked.

I mean, didn't we remove Solar Tree for "rewarding the player for doing nothing?"


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 Post subject: Re: Patch 3.1 beta 1 is Live!
 Post Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2016 8:36 am 
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Skip wrote:
I'd be fine with medican getting removed or reworked.

I mean, didn't we remove Solar Tree for "rewarding the player for doing nothing?"

give everyone krab burgers :)

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