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 Post subject: Qi'Tara impressions [Beta 4.5.2]
 Post Posted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 3:09 am 
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Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2012 4:01 am
Posts: 4926
Location: Brazil
Alright, Qi'Tara's second beta is out! She feels a bit better, but there's still a long way to go and several problems (and even some of her already reported bugs) haven't been fixed yet. I've managed to play enough bot matches to unlock all her stuff (>_>) and will try my best at providing some feedback.

Chakram Shift
This skill has been substantially improved. The damage nerf on base is insignifficant and it actually deals damage 3 times now. Of course, the biggest improvement here is the ability to return to your original location after teleporting, which differentiates it from Nibbs' orb and allows for a lot of mobility and fun gameplay options, including using it as sentry's teleburst.

I'm only sad that we didn't even get to test it while the turret bug was still in place. That would make it a very unique (albeit very risky) way of engaging enemies. Maybe Ronimo feared players moving behind the base barrier and just chilling around in the enemy team's shop/healing station? I mean, if that's the case make the stores team-exclusive for an easy fix.
That would have been a cool feature to see, but I'm not complaining here. Substantial improvement guys, well done! :thumb:

Eye lash guillotine
The reduction on base damage makes this upgrade deal less damage per hit overall, but it's still a solid, if not mandatory pick. Qi'Tara is still a very weak, unreliable Awesomenaut and this upgrade helps mitigate that a little bit.
Matching Mirror
A more viable pick now that the chakram duration isn't overkill. I don't see myself picking it as often ad other upgrades in this row that just seem better overall, however.
Gunpowder Box
Absolutely mandatory. Not picking this item means you are hurting your own lategame.
Peel Off Face Mask
Another excellent change. Blind effects are inherently unfun in my opinion. This weakening effect allows Qi'Tara to more safely approach her enemies, which is something she desperately needs. I like it.
Rakki Comb
It has even more droid damage potential now that shift damage also benefits from it, but I still think this upgrade has no place on an assassin character. I'd rather see something like more projectile speed on the chakram or some other effect. Not a big fan of this.
Laser Lipstick
Qi'Tara loses a lot of her burst if she opts to use this on her allies... after that, she is forced to play very safely as engaging enemies while chakram shift is on cooldown is really not viable unless they very close to death. It feels very wasteful purchasing this upgrade. I don't like it at all.

Seven Star Strike
The attack speed increase is nice but I'm confused as to why it no longer deals damage to enemies behind you. The hitbox looks a bit misleading right now. Not only because of this change but because the range is smaller than it seems. I still think this skill is very bland and not as fun as other autoattack focused skills.

Splumb Croquette
For all intents and purposes this acts as a way to keep the movement speed buff going on for longer. The original problem still remains: Qi'Tara simply cannot afford to stick to enemies for this long. Her health is not built for melee range. You can almost never stay close to an enemy for the full default duration before dying, being forced to teleport out or watch them escape you, let alone do that for a longer period of time. The only other use I can see to it is to get more hits at an enemy structure or droid wave.
Mobile Frier
Nothing to add here. Still a very useful, if not necessary upgrade.
Hairdresser Fries
The problem remains and once again, it's her pitiful AA's fault. Qi'Tara cannot afford to hug more than one Awesomenaut at once. This only works if a teamfight occurs and everyone blows all their cooldowns. Then Qi'Tara can teleport in and try to mop up (but of course, this means she has to stay on the back until it's safe, making the teamfight a 2v3 in favor of the enemy).
Salty Seal
This upgrade doesn't solve problems. You don't need more uses of SSS, you need SSS to be good, which it is not, because it is tied to her awful AA.
Baby Plumbmin Oil
Boy, am I glad to see this gone for good... The idea here is nice, but the excecution... not so much. I'm being entirely honest here when I say this is bar none the worst lifesteal currently in the game. Even if you hit multiple targets with it, it will not even be able to sustain you. The best it can do is decelerate the speed of your death. It's truly awful.
Killer Tomato Ketchup
You need as much damage as you can get in order to properly function. The problem here is Qi'Tara is very squishy. When you are squishy you want to have the means to kill your enemy before he can do that to you. Qi'Tara's damage is applied way too slowly and requires her to be close to her enemies at all times. She does not have the health to outlast her foes or the quick, reliable damage to kill them before too much harm comes her way.

Poisonous Blades
Guys, I feel like you're being a bit stubborn with this stacking dot thing. The damage isn't the problem, but how fast you get to deal it. It's over 6 seconds long now, that's ridiculous for a game as fast-paced and that offers as many opportunity to heal as 'nauts. I'm willing to bet a Voltar on the enemy team is enough to make her completely useless. The DoT time is too long and the direct damage is too low... and you can't just increase it to make her more viable because paired with SSS, a stronger AA would most likely be OP.

Even if a Voltar is not present, it ticks so slowly for such low damage that a target behind the safety of a turret can count on med-i'-can to keep them alive most of the time, as Qi'Tara needs to be constantly stacking DoTs to function, and I'm not even factoring creeps and healthpacks here.

The only good thing I can say about it is that her clear was indeed improved, but that's only because droids do not try to dodge her attacks. They just sit there and take it. Qi'Tara can work when you sit there and take it.

I kept trying to see what could be done to improve it if you are really adamant on keeping this mechanic, and I think slightly longer range and a larger (vertically speaking) hitbox could make it a bit more reliable... but I don't really think that's the best solution to the problem.

Skrogl Eyeshadow
Nothing to add.
Portuguese Warblade
Nothing to add mechanic-wise. The animation is working now. Maybe it should be unique with a unique sound? Like Leon's backstab? It'd be probably be nice to have a cue for players.
Coba Serpent
This is what I was thinking about when I thought about slightly longer reach and a larger hitbox. Maybe it'd make this upgrade more reliable?
Silent Killer
This is interesting. She has none of the effects necessary to trigger this upgrade, with the removal of the slow on her chakram. That said, those effects are almost garanteed to be in any match, with slow in particular being very prevalent. A more team-oriented upgrade, perhaps?
Lily of the Isle
It's short, but safer than her default AA. For the few seconds which it's active, Qi'Tara feels like a slightly more fun, less frustrating character to play. I can stay close, but not HUG an enemy to function. Too bad it's not her default AA though, that would probably make things a little easier. :lolstar:
Chilasi Chakram
Qi'Tara is actually quite fast when not attacking. I still think this upgrade is mandatory and I would never lock it initially on the last column. At least make it available right away.

Is it just me or is Qi'Tara tall? Like, REALLY tall? I have trouble jumping over droids in certain narrow passages (like the middle of Sorona's top lane and certain parts of Aiguillon) might wanna have a look at that.
Her boots still cost more than the default price when it shouldn't and I still think it is a big mistake including that renegate walky talky thing there.

In Conclusion
So it all comes down to the fact that Qi'Tara lacks the tools necessary to function as intended. She either needs more health before she can even think about going melee (which I wouldn't recommend, now that she can teleport back to safety) or a more reliable damage source (either give her reliable direct damage or reduce the time it takes for the DoT to run its course, nerf the damage if you must)
Gnaw's DoT works because it is applied quickly: even if you manage to get to a healthpack or a creep, at least some of the damage has been done. Oftentimes more than what the healthpack healed.
Qi'Tara's DoT doesn't add pressure unless you sit there and take it, letting it build up to huge levels of damage. In normal situations she can be bullied away and the damage is applied to slow to be a priority. You don't feel pressured to leave the lane and find healing. That's what DoTs are supposed to do, IMO.

In my humble opinion, what you guys could do is leave chakram shift as it is (even if we don't get to test the turret dive bug/function) and work on AA and SSS.

Personally one idea I had was getting rid of the stacking DoT and making her AA deal good, direct damage. It doesn't have to be Leon levels of good, but something better than 35 damage, which is pathetic. She can't even contest creeps.

As for SSS, what if it worked more like Rocco's Vengeance, in that it affects both her AA and her other skill? (chakram in this case)

Something like this: "empowers your other abilities with poison", adding a DoT effect on top of your AA damage and exploding in a cloud of poisonous smoke when you teleport in/out.

I realize that this would mean throwing away her "flurry" animation (unless you can find a different use for it... maybe an upgrade), but I think it could work out.

If you guys are still set on keeping her kit as it is however, i'd recommend giving her lily of the isle at base, so she can at least participate in teamfights safely.

It's of course your call. I'm of course no game designer and my advice is probably flawed.

Best of luck to you guys and (hopefully) see you in the next beta? If there is one? I think there should be one.

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 Post subject: Re: Qi'Tara impressions [Beta 4.5.2]
 Post Posted: Sat Nov 25, 2017 3:27 am 
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Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2017 3:45 am
Posts: 515
Location: inside my house
After playing her, it was quite a bit more fun (Except bot auto aim, couldn't play against people)

However some things are needing to happen.

Backstab isn't very useful at all, as it only adds a small amount of damage and doesn't apply on buildings. This upgrade should be scrapped for a basic attack speed upgrade, her aa really needs it. However if attackspeed isn't ideal, a -1s duration on poison would also be mighty fine, maybe the poison should tick faster if you're backstabbing? That's a neat idea.

Shakaram shift is fine, except you can instantly teleport back after hitting once with a coba serpent proc to easily deal 300 damage plus the amp and weapon break. There should be at least a 0.2s channel time for each teleport. There is a bit of risk if you want both bursts to hit, which is neat.

for seven star strike, I feel like the lifesteal is fine ish, maybe bump it up to 35% but it's pretty fine. I find it can stop nauts like ayla from melting you which is nice.
She is still utterly useless when jumping into multiple people, and I think the damage bonus around multiple enemies should be changed to something more useful on its own, maybe increase base damage of her aa per hit? maybe like +5 per enemy hit, or just the incurable poison idea.

The numbers seem mostly fine, however there's still quite a few tweaks to do. If they keep this up she should be fine.

Qitara main who goes 0/13 every game.
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