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 Post subject: Re: Patch notes 4.6 beta 1
 Post Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 2:11 pm 
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Oh, almost forgot!
Quote:
-Backstage pass, increase the range of your Multi Dash by 25% when you have the maximum amount of dashes charged.

To be honest, I never picked Backstage pass in real fights, mostly tested it with bots. But this upgrade purpose was pretty clear to me: when Dizzy is out of dashes she's vulnerable and does pretty nothing with her peeshooter, praying all gods for the quickest recharge of another dash. When she finally gets one, BSP makes it longer, letting to increase the distance between her and a danger source - or close the gap in case she is the chaser. Her boots had synergy with it, effectively putting in use a complete loss of charges during pauses.

I can't say the same about new BSP. It would have some meaning if Dizzy gained extra damage while dashing with full of charges. Extra damage, hit and run - or spamming. That is the difficult choice. But extra range on first dash? What would Dizzy do then, with only normal ranged dashes remaining? I can see no tactics in it. It's much faster and easier to spend all the charges and actually catch an enemy, than waiting until this buff will work.
Hope you will get the old BSP back. May be the previous version was not very popular, but it is not likely a new one would change it.

--------
The next thing is not about characters balance, so probably it would better be readdressed in tech subforum. But since it is not a bug report either, I'm not sure.

Actually I was wondering if your programmers could add a "total refund" function into the test room. Now we have a button for quick getting of solar, a switch-the-side barriers, but if you need to test upgrades and - the most important - their different combinations, you will have to quit and play test again. Which is not that hard, but why?
Thank you.


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 Post subject: Re: Patch notes 4.6 beta 1
 Post Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 3:21 pm 
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Sevenecho wrote:
Qi’Tara
Golden, as it was already said before! A shield mechanic on Salty Seal is much more better than cleanse you mentioned before.
- Still, I would ask you to experiment with numbers. 100hp is literally nothing. Rae's shield provides 225hp for example. You could say "well yes, but Rae stands still and she's not an assassin, that's fair". Until you realize that 100hp is TWO bullets from almost every aa in the game and three bullets from Derpl's turret. I believe the weakest burst damage skill in the game is Smile's Hook - it deals 100hp damage. And still - it's enough to crack this shield in no time. Rae's rift will damage it by itself, so there's a chance with the help of only one bullet Qi’Tara stucks in the middle of a dangerous situation. Rare Sentry would not accompany his black hole with his mines and so forth.
In current state Salty Seal is almost always defensive. There's no way Qi’Tara would storm the gate with such unreliable thing, in that case Chakram serves better. And if I were an escaping Qi’Tara, I would rather prefer extra speed - it has both offensive and defense use and works just fine in almost any situation.
TLDR: please make shield at least 200hp. It's still easy to deal with it, but not that easy you don't even notice it by shooting randomly with aa.


Do not increase the shield value, it will leave her very hard to counterplay when she gets on you. 100 is easily breakable, but is still usable by qi'tara to avoid CC, until she gets hit too much.

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 Post subject: Re: Patch notes 4.6 beta 1
 Post Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 3:22 pm 
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Sevenecho wrote:
Oh, almost forgot!
Quote:
-Backstage pass, increase the range of your Multi Dash by 25% when you have the maximum amount of dashes charged.

To be honest, I never picked Backstage pass in real fights, mostly tested it with bots. But this upgrade purpose was pretty clear to me: when Dizzy is out of dashes she's vulnerable and does pretty nothing with her peeshooter, praying all gods for the quickest recharge of another dash. When she finally gets one, BSP makes it longer, letting to increase the distance between her and a danger source - or close the gap in case she is the chaser. Her boots had synergy with it, effectively putting in use a complete loss of charges during pauses.

I can't say the same about new BSP. It would have some meaning if Dizzy gained extra damage while dashing with full of charges. Extra damage, hit and run - or spamming. That is the difficult choice. But extra range on first dash? What would Dizzy do then, with only normal ranged dashes remaining? I can see no tactics in it. It's much faster and easier to spend all the charges and actually catch an enemy, than waiting until this buff will work.
Hope you will get the old BSP back. May be the previous version was not very popular, but it is not likely a new one would change it.

--------
The next thing is not about characters balance, so probably it would better be readdressed in tech subforum. But since it is not a bug report either, I'm not sure.

Actually I was wondering if your programmers could add a "total refund" function into the test room. Now we have a button for quick getting of solar, a switch-the-side barriers, but if you need to test upgrades and - the most important - their different combinations, you will have to quit and play test again. Which is not that hard, but why?
Thank you.


I think it was purely to fix a bug, but I also think the old one was much better, the current beta one does not add anything

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 Post subject: Re: Patch notes 4.6 beta 1
 Post Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 3:30 pm 
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Tom wrote:
Some early thoughts on what I've tested:


    x
  • Sentry: I'd revert the range increase from the BHS projectile, and not go as heavy on the size nerf. I love the rest of the BHS changes, but the AoE feels a little too small now, could do with a halfway point. I don't like the projectile range increase because it basically makes him really hard to approach. I feel like nerfs to BHS's zoning potential are being countered by the range increase. It's like he's gone from zoning like a Clunk, to zoning more like a Yoolip with the +range gaze upgrade.
    x
  • Yoolip: I don't really get the idea behind changing his AA to ranged, I mean he doesn't struggle to waveclear with dinos and his zone of control with +range gaze is really strong. I mean I'm not against it, it's just not really solving any issues Yoolip has. Anyhow if your going to keep it, something needs to be done about the ridiculous turret pushing power this change gives him. Yoolip has always been able to create droid trains with the droid heal on his AA and melt turrets with a 100% damage to turrets and strong quark microscope DPS. The thing is, this only used to happen if he was left unattended because as soon as somebody turned up, Yoolip had to leave melee range of the turret and the push ended. Now he can just sit in the face of whoever turns up and keep pushing. If the walk past the turret he can use dinos and gaze to force you back under it, dinos will bounce off of the turret, turning around and melting anybody who tries to walk through them. Previously at melee range of the turret, his abilities had little value as they did not pierce the turret.


I like the fact that you can dodge BHS now if you predict where its going to go up, and I also like the fact that enemies can't just walk out as easily as before. I think the radius is perfect but the projectile speed right now just makes Sentry too ranged.

And yeah I don't get why Yoolip needed to be ranged, I think Yoolip would be fine if his lockout per dino was reduced to 0.5s from 0.7s.

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 Post subject: Re: Patch notes 4.6 beta 1
 Post Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 3:34 pm 
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Sevenecho wrote:
Thanks for the beta: these changes are quite interesting!
I agree almost everything with guys said, but still, my observations:

Dizzy
- There is no need in 5 seconds dash recharging time. The problem was in the upgrade, now it's gone (a different mechanic to my surprise. Yet not sured for good or worse).
- Dungarees. In my opinion 3s is too much (especially in the crowds - one person hit is a success already). Water clones are easy to land, they deal medium damage and normal CD - 7s. Giving Dizzy another recharge speed upgrade (she had three already) will turn her into the spam-machine. +15% size upgrade isn't even close that good if you ask me. Let's start with 1.5s and see what happens next. Otherwise that would be another Smiles whipping everything with his tail every 4 seconds.


I mean she was kind of meant to be a "spam-machine".

That said I think dungarees is fine because it requires you to hit an enemy Awesomenaut. Also the ability is pretty lacklustered in impact (it only does damage, and not THAT much of it) If it still proves to be too much I'd say move it to 2.5s but I think its generally fine.

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 Post subject: Re: Patch notes 4.6 beta 1
 Post Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 4:08 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Patch notes 4.6 beta 1
 Post Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 4:17 pm 
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I really don't understand why we are nerfing Rocket's funnest mechanic, Rocket Jumping. Nerf his health if you want him to be more easily punished for mistakes, but if anything we should be pushing Rocket MORE to using Rocket Launch for mobility than super instant burst damage when combo'd with his fully charged AA. We're doing both here and, while burst is his damage style, I agree with the changes to his burst cycle. Maybe it needs to be stronger when fully charged, but this is the right direction EXCEPT for the nerf to self-knockback. That needs to go.

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 Post subject: Re: Patch notes 4.6 beta 1
 Post Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 4:22 pm 
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Commander Rocket

Tested Commander Rocket, and surprise surprise, he is dead, absolutely dead. He is not fun to play as and does not do *, more than any naut ever in the history of Awesomenauts in my opinion :ixsad: :

    Building Launch damage or Salvo damage, building the one inhibits you from using the other. This is a huge design void right now.

    Rocket Jumping in to finish kills is gone. And so did some of the fun you could have with it.

    Rockets burst went from 650 to 350 on level 1 with full damage upgrades. Which is pathetic and not the reason he was strong to begin with.

    Placing Laser trap feels unintuitive.

How do we fix this?

First just fix the trap problem: Revert the placement on self change.

I think the current self-knockback is a fine change, right now I feel like its on the spot of not being a 100% disengage anymore. But the Salvo charge- Rocket Launch change desperately needs adressing. His damage needs to go back up in a more responsive way, or the change needs to be replaced. This can be done in 2 ways:

(1)- Make Can of Eightballs, Plan B Rockets and Head in a Jar increase Rocket Launch damage too. Fusion Potato Mashers increase total Rocket damage. This makes sense because Rocket Launch will now correctly scale with AA damage, other than selectively scale with it. This way it is worth building AA while making it not detrimental to fully charge for Rocket Launch, so that the mechanic actually can be used. Calcs:

Rocket Launch deals 96 damage per salvo charge. 122,88 damage when fully builded can of Eightballs, with plan B rockets that becomes 492 damage. Then with Fusion potato Mashers on top of that that is 609 damage. If that is too much turn the base scaling of Rocket Launch with salvo charges down.

You can also put a base damage of like 150 on top of Rocket launch and then have the scaling with salvo charges be 60.

If 2 is not an option, 1 HAS to go through

(2)- the charge-up mechanic instead of the consume mechanic. Offers counterplay by interaction and so keeps Commander Rocket's power but offers windows to punish Commander Rocket when you get the drop on him. A releasable charge-up on Rocket Launch that increases the self-knockback and the projectile speed for the duration (kb 10% to 120%) (psped 70% to 120%), duration of the charge up is 3 seconds. Interruption of the charge-up results in the Rocket firing, but without the self knockback.

This keeps the Rocket Jump mechanic in its full glory while also providing enemies windows of about 2.5s if you get the drop on em, and that is a lot of time to work with considering the current time you get on the live patch is 0s

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 Post subject: Re: Patch notes 4.6 beta 1
 Post Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 5:02 pm 
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And still, I get on melee range to heal my droids, hurt the enemies AND damage the turret at the same time, and I just get on melee range to prevent my AA from hitting other stuff; it didn't change anything. All that changed is that I heal and damage less. Guess that's what League 1 needs :CocoWink:

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 Post subject: Re: Patch notes 4.6 beta 1
 Post Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 5:11 pm 
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Quote:
100 is easily breakable, but is still usable by qi'tara to avoid CC, until she gets hit too much.

That's the point. 100hp is far from "too much", such small numbers are referring to "chip damage", poking. You get this damage easely here and there from turrets or even from aa of silenced Naut. Since SSS no longer speeds Qitara up, her shield won't help her much. I would rather exchange it for "cc immunity until Qitara attacks" - that will be more reliable for escaping and sometimes for initiations. If you still think it's too much - think about her painfully losing her main attacking skill (full time or partially, until she decides it's enough close to you) and lifesteal in exchange for safety.

Quote:
I mean she was kind of meant to be a "spam-machine".

That's such a sha... relief she doesn't have access to the Overdrive Gear then :) But ok, I won't argue on that.
Quote:
Also the ability is pretty lacklustered in impact (it only does damage, and not THAT much of it)

Since waterclone is AOE attack, it does just needed damage for it. Now it deals 360. Make it 500 - and you will get Clunk. Very squishy yet mobile Clunk ready to explode in 0.9s.
So may be the problem is we need more utilities for the skill instead of making it spammable? I'm not trying to be an expert, so it is not a rhetorical question - I would really interested in seeing speeding up allies if they walk through the bubble, weakening enemies and so on. Raw damage is boring and TWO spammable skills makes fights annoying vs nauts having them.


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