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 Post subject: Re: Ask various AI modding questions here
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 6:23 am 
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Joost wrote:
We made them different sizes to make them easier to see when several droids are standing on the same spot.


Sounds hacky :P


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 Post subject: Re: Ask various AI modding questions here
 Post Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2016 7:47 pm 
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Is it only me or AI editor from 3.1.4/beta does not work?

Code:
1   MyApp constructor starts
2   C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\Awesomenauts\Data\BehaviourCreator
3   Command Line:  1702130524


I have tried with version I had somewhere else than in Awesomenauts installation folder and it does work.

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 Post subject: Re: Ask various AI modding questions here
 Post Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 3:11 am 
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Aki wrote:
snip.



It seems resolved. However, I don't know if it was some kind of conflict on my end between applications or the update actually fixed it.

Thanks to anyone who did something to fix it (it was in patch notes)! :kiss:

And thanks for fixing in-game scrollbars. If nobody noticed they weren't working in 3.0+

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 Post subject: Re: Ask various AI modding questions here
 Post Posted: Sat Apr 01, 2017 5:56 pm 
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What consequences are there (if any) of adding a massive amount of AI nodes to a map? will that end up confusing the AI instead of helping it? Will it affect framerate?

Joost wrote:
We made them different sizes to make them easier to see when several droids are standing on the same spot.

Why not make several different sprites instead so the gameplay is not affected? I don't like RNG in my games, real life already has enough RNG.


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 Post subject: Re: Ask various AI modding questions here
 Post Posted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 5:56 pm 
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Luckytime wrote:
What consequences are there (if any) of adding a massive amount of AI nodes to a map? will that end up confusing the AI instead of helping it? Will it affect framerate


Can anybody clarify how Ai's interact with nodes? I don't want to rehash the same thing 3 times.


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 Post subject: Re: Ask various AI modding questions here
 Post Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 1:51 pm 
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If you have an enormous amount of AI nodes in the level then that might slightly decrease performance, but I expect you'd need to go pretty insane before you'd notice even a small difference.

However, there is such a thing as the "ideal distance" between nodes. If the nodes are too far from each other, then traversing the map to get to the next node will become too complex, making the bot get stuck. If they're too close, then the bot might start alternating between two nodes and get stuck that way.

The general rule is: the next node should be reachable through a simple action. Examples of simple actions:
-Walk left + jump
-Downjump
-Walk right
-Use jetpack in a single direction


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 Post subject: Re: Ask various AI modding questions here
 Post Posted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 9:59 pm 
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Much appreciated, that means I'll be deleting quite a few nodes now and that will make my life a lot easier. :monkey:


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 Post subject: Re: Ask various AI modding questions here
 Post Posted: Sun Apr 16, 2017 7:18 pm 
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Somebody made a thread in tech support/bugs about bot path finding and I was wondering how that works too. It should be simple in theory, just lay down two nodes and the bot will find its way between them. But on certain maps some bots just can't cope with the geography for whatever reason. I saw a derpl bot get stuck in the same place on my map every time he went to it, and all he had to do was jump once to clear a tiny ledge.

So how do bots pathfind? I sometimes wonder what the map looks like from their perspective. Do they see ledges, platforms, pickups, droids, etc? or do they only see nodes?


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 Post subject: Re: Ask various AI modding questions here
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 8:11 am 
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Luckytime wrote:
So how do bots pathfind? I sometimes wonder what the map looks like from their perspective. Do they see ledges, platforms, pickups, droids, etc? or do they only see nodes?

There's an old dev blog on that. I wouldn't be surprised if some things changed since then, but I'm pretty sure that the basic idea is still the same.

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 Post subject: Re: Ask various AI modding questions here
 Post Posted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 2:15 pm 
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Luckytime wrote:
Somebody made a thread in tech support/bugs about bot path finding and I was wondering how that works too. It should be simple in theory, just lay down two nodes and the bot will find its way between them. But on certain maps some bots just can't cope with the geography for whatever reason. I saw a derpl bot get stuck in the same place on my map every time he went to it, and all he had to do was jump once to clear a tiny ledge.

So how do bots pathfind? I sometimes wonder what the map looks like from their perspective. Do they see ledges, platforms, pickups, droids, etc? or do they only see nodes?

Path finding has several layers to it, and the bug you describe can be in any of them:
  • There's a node graph in the level that's used to figure out how to go from one place to another. Map creators build this node graph in the map editor.
  • When a bot asks for a both to somewhere on the map, we run A* to figure out a path. This happens in C++ in our own code and I'm pretty sure this part is solid and bugfree.
  • When a bot asks for a path to somewhere, the code needs to figure out where the bot is now: he's rarely exactly on a node when he asks for a path, so our code looks for the nearest node, taking collision into account, and does path finding from there. This code might give problems. You can see what's going on here by selecting the stuck bot in the F4 editor and looking at the little squares he places. It shows both his final target node, and the next node he needs to walk to to get there. Tweaking node placement in the map can sometimes fix issues here.
  • The bot AI decides where it wants to go. This is most common cause for bugs. For example, a bot AI might alternate between two goals every couple of seconds, causing it to walk left and right all the time. Or a bot AI might think it's in combat while it isn't, causing it to ignore path finding altogether since it wants to fight instead.
  • A bot has logic to actually get to the next node on the path. It needs to be able to jump towards platforms above it, turn on its jetpack, etc. This is fairly simple so it usually isn't the cause of problems, but there might be bots that have bugs in their behaviour tree for this.


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