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 Post subject: Balance
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 05, 2010 5:09 pm 
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What does everyone think of the current state of balance between the factions and units in the PSN version... Please only consider online matches. Are there units or spells you rarely use? Or always? Does it feel much harder to win with a faction than the others? Are some tactics just nearly unbeatable?

Discuss the balance of the game here! :monkey:

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 Post subject: Re: Balance Poll
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 05, 2010 11:05 pm 
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tell people of this on facebook and/or twitter, for a wider adiaunce. :D it might work...

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 Post subject: Re: Balance Poll
 Post Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2010 2:06 am 
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Yeah, to Randomizer's point... I feel awkward voting if the sampling size isn't right.
It might be kind of interesting to hear from you guys some of the challenges you're struck with, whether its really granular (i.e, should Stone Guardians cost 5 mana more)... or more open ended, why isn't X-Race as popular as the rest.


Two-cents balance wise (Spells)
Dragon:
I have never won a match after getting Dragon'd, its an almost definite win condition - with an improved success rate per # of tower spots.

Boulder:
I really want to use this, but given its position in the tech tree, I can't justify the time / cost.

Etc:
It actually annoys me that nothing comes after Sacrifice - the lone tech. Its the most effective spell for Aztecs, but we're discouraged from taking it early on. Suppose Boulder succeeded Sac (which you need anyways), it would open the door for some new strategies early game - and encourage people to build towers. C'mon these things are better than gold anyways!

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 Post subject: Re: Balance
 Post Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2010 11:03 pm 
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I like how you guys have changed the Boulder since the Wii version, but my biggest problem with the Boulder is how expensive it is as far as mana goes. 350 just seems like a lot.

Maybe one way to fix it is by swapping the mana cost of Dragon with the mana cost of Boulder, so that Boulder would cost 250 mana and Dragon would cost 350 mana.

I love all the new changes to the Chinese, but theres one little thing I think may need tweaking. The Chinese Swordman now takes 3 seconds to research and has a 3 second cooldown. Personally, I think the Swordman should have his original Wii values back (which was 5 seconds to research and a 4 second cooldown). The 3 second cooldown and research time has given rise to a lot of Chinese players just Sword Rushing. There are counters to a player making nothing but Swords (for Vikings, its Frost Hammers; for Aztecs, its Sun Giants), so its not broken, per se. But it still feels too easy to mass Swords.

I almost feel like Darts are too powerful against Vikings. I discussed with another player how to deal with a Dart Rush when playing as a Viking, and those tactics do work, but still. I think the problem is the speed reduction that the poison causes. Vikings have slower units when compared to the other 2 factions. Maybe the speed reduction needs to be changed? Like maybe 40% speed reduction insted of 60%? Or 50% instead of 60?

Anyway, those are my opinions :monkey:


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 Post subject: Re: Balance
 Post Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 1:20 am 
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playing china you can realliy defend yourself to well from a rush, like that swords now have a slower cooldown because no i can actually DEFEND my base. china is a bit scrawed on small maps.

but for my little blip say for balance, that thors hammers is a pain in butt when spamed. because of its relitivly cheap cost you can have 5 hammers on the map at a time! china needs their gold and mana to be uused at all times, vikings, not so much they can spam and spam and spam. lovly spam. so maybe a longer wait time for thors hammer?

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 Post subject: Re: Balance
 Post Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2010 8:13 pm 
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Started playing this game this last Saturday mainly as aztec and I have been having lots of trouble against chinese players that mass swordsmen. It feels like once they get swordmen buddahs and the either the summon spell or the fire arrows spell it becomes really hard to hold off attacks.

I played about 10 games against a good chinese player(none of which I won) and I just kept trying a lot of different things, what seemed to work best was when I researched jaguar warrior, sun giant and poison cloud. This pushes them back until they bring out rocketeers or zen masters. At this point if I manage to get a tower up I'm still in the game if not I get rolled. Necromancers don't seem to useful in this matchup because fire arrows kill them and skeletons very well. Blow darts being the only ranged unit for aztecs really seems to be the problem since the die easily due to low health, fire arrows, swordsmen reflecting poison darts and rocketeer splash. Also chinese have the easiest access to towers making boulder less usefull if u actually get to use it.
Anyone else having trouble with this matchup? Any tips?

I also have a hard time while playing vikings agaisnt chinese, but not as bad since their units are stronger and and early spell lightning is really good compared to trap and the hammer guys are eaiser to bring out compared to sun giants because of cost and build cool down difference.


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 Post subject: Re: Balance
 Post Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 3:07 am 
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david_A wrote:
Started playing this game this last Saturday mainly as aztec and I have been having lots of trouble against chinese players that mass swordsmen. It feels like once they get swordmen buddahs and the either the summon spell or the fire arrows spell it becomes really hard to hold off attacks.

I played about 10 games against a good chinese player(none of which I won) and I just kept trying a lot of different things, what seemed to work best was when I researched jaguar warrior, sun giant and poison cloud. This pushes them back until they bring out rocketeers or zen masters. At this point if I manage to get a tower up I'm still in the game if not I get rolled. Necromancers don't seem to useful in this matchup because fire arrows kill them and skeletons very well. Blow darts being the only ranged unit for aztecs really seems to be the problem since the die easily due to low health, fire arrows, swordsmen reflecting poison darts and rocketeer splash. Also chinese have the easiest access to towers making boulder less usefull if u actually get to use it.
Anyone else having trouble with this matchup? Any tips?

I also have a hard time while playing vikings agaisnt chinese, but not as bad since their units are stronger and and early spell lightning is really good compared to trap and the hammer guys are eaiser to bring out compared to sun giants because of cost and build cool down difference.


From my multiplayer experience, the Chinese seem the toughest to play against, period. They're just much more varied than the other two races, and it feels like they grow in strength exponentially as the game progresses. What always happens to me, no matter what I do, is:
-massed swordsmen, which I hold off relatively well, but while I'm "holding them off," the player is training more workers
-intermixed rocketeers that make the units that are constantly bunching to take out the swordsmen useless, along with arrows
-the wizards, which take out the good late game units like the Sun Giants and Catapults

If I start off the game with units like the Sun Giants, my economy is left in ruin as the other player easily shifts tactics. It gets pretty frustrating!

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 Post subject: Re: Balance
 Post Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 8:35 pm 
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Patch notes for PSN (all work in progress):

footsoldier hp 105 -> 98
footsoldier upgr time 3 -> 7
footsoldier cooldown 3 -> 4
footsoldier upgrade cost 90 -> 110
terracotta dmg 8 -> 6
catapult hp 130 -> 95
catapult minrange 5 -> 4
catapult maxrange 6 -> 7
catapult attk cd 6 -> 4
catapult impact now stuns units for 0.3 seconds
catapult cost 150 -> 180
arrowrain manacost 65 -> 70
Hammer of Thor hp 200 -> 250

comments? :monkey:

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 Post subject: Re: Balance
 Post Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 10:17 pm 
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olivier wrote:
Patch notes for PSN (all work in progress):

footsoldier hp 105 -> 98
footsoldier upgr time 3 -> 7
footsoldier cooldown 3 -> 4
footsoldier upgrade cost 90 -> 110
terracotta dmg 8 -> 6
catapult hp 130 -> 95
catapult minrange 5 -> 4
catapult maxrange 6 -> 7
catapult attk cd 6 -> 4
catapult impact now stuns units for 0.3 seconds
catapult cost 150 -> 180
arrowrain manacost 65 -> 70
Hammer of Thor hp 200 -> 250

comments? :monkey:


I love the catapult edits. They seem very hard to get much use out of at the moment...
I also like the footsoldier edits, I just hope they don't go from overpowered to useless... You guys know best, though. I look forward to the patch!

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 Post subject: Re: Balance
 Post Posted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 6:05 pm 
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Also, now this isn't really balance-related as much as patch-related, but would there be any possibility of voice chat, even if it's only in friend battles? My brother who lives a 10-hour drive away and I love to play S and S, but it's not as fun to not be able to talk. I can't seem to figure out any other way to do it since Skype uses too much of my internet and he doesn't want to kill his cell phone battery...

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