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 Post subject: Awefull balance of the Faction in MP
 Post Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 11:18 am 
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Hi Ronimo,

i'm Europe and i bought SaS.
It is a great game, but i bought especially for the MP. Start playing with my brother and only finished 4-5 Mission in the Viking Campaign.

We played uip to 30 Matches in MP and i must say that the balance is very bad.
The Chinese are overpowered in this game. My brother play every time with them and there is no chance to win. at the beginning i played with the Aztec, but now i changed to the Chinese.

The biggest flaw is that you can nothing do against the dragon. He is so powerfull, there is no chance to stand against with the aztec oder vikings.
He always defence and rush for the dragon. Then he killed my goldpicker with the dragon. 1 or 2 survice, but i have no chance replace this losses.
When we play with Chinese against Chinese, we both rush for the dragon and kill our monks each other... :roll:
Best and easy way to survive and win the match...
Also the Chinese Rocketers are very strong.

Another point is that the boulder of the aztec is useless!
It get destroyed at every tower! So there is no need to built it, because it is to expensive and to easy to stop.
My brother only watch my screen, and when he see that i have 300 mana points, he build a budda. I kill have of my own workers, lot of troops and non of his worker! :shock:

It will be nice i you make a Update for the like they do for the Texas Hold'em Poker for Wiiware. Fix the balance, so that the MP makes fun again. ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Awefull balance of the Faction in MP
 Post Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 12:29 pm 
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Joined: Sat May 23, 2009 8:22 am
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First: Naaa~!

Senond: You know the boulder can jump over towers... Right?

Three: The chinese are not the best.

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 Post subject: Re: Awefull balance of the Faction in MP
 Post Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 3:29 am 
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Each faction has their specialty:

Vikings are all about pure offense,and keeping units alive thru heal,and invul,while you keep hitting your opponents with simple,but good spells.

Aztecs have the greatest mix of units.They can poison and deal affliction DoT dmg (DoT means Dammage over Time)they can raise the dead (very good combo with the boulder)the jaguar warriors deal great dmg on their first strike.And they have the sun giant.And of course,mind control and poison bomb are very nice as well.

Chinese,its all in the spells mostly,and attacking many enemies at once (aka what the rocketeers and Arrow rain do)The swordsman isnt very good offensively,and yin yang is good,but costly.Terra cotta goes away after some time,and the dragon...its powerful,but if used to soon,your allies can get in the way and get hurt themselves.Though,they do have the sage dude and the ninja monkey...


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 Post subject: Re: Awefull balance of the Faction in MP
 Post Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 5:54 am 
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Man... I actually found Chinese to be the absolute worst race for PvP.

Out of all the matches we've played between 6 of us (probably 40 matches or so), Chinese almost never win. I can't even imagine how either of you are even getting to the dragon and surviving. There's almost no chance for Chinese to get ANY mana whatsoever to even survive at all against normal Viking/Aztec spell use.

The Chinese players get completely steam rolled everytime. How in the world is your opponent allowed to save for the dragon? How are you even letting him get towers up?

If I had to rate the factions in order of overpoweredness, right now it would be:

1) Aztecs
2) Vikings
3) My left shoe
4) My dirty carpet
5) Chinese

Chinese are just awful.

So I guess my question is, what are your build orders like, what are your map settings like?

We always play medium maps with default settings. You?


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 Post subject: Re: Awefull balance of the Faction in MP
 Post Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 12:18 pm 
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Posts: 48
Are you doing this? Because that much resources can tip any game balance.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzkZFTcJjPQ

And even so, the commensurate Viking video takes only 6:16, and the Aztec version 3:12.


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 Post subject: Re: Awefull balance of the Faction in MP
 Post Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 11:10 pm 
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sTo0z wrote:
Man... I actually found Chinese to be the absolute worst race for PvP.

Out of all the matches we've played between 6 of us (probably 40 matches or so), Chinese almost never win. I can't even imagine how either of you are even getting to the dragon and surviving. There's almost no chance for Chinese to get ANY mana whatsoever to even survive at all against normal Viking/Aztec spell use.

The Chinese players get completely steam rolled everytime. How in the world is your opponent allowed to save for the dragon? How are you even letting him get towers up?

If I had to rate the factions in order of overpoweredness, right now it would be:

1) Aztecs
2) Vikings
3) My left shoe
4) My dirty carpet
5) Chinese

Chinese are just awful.

So I guess my question is, what are your build orders like, what are your map settings like?

We always play medium maps with default settings. You?

Though i dont have the game yet until this monday (U.S) i would say the chinese are best for large maps.The buddah towers are what supply the mana.Build 2 or 3,and you will gain alot (ive watched tons of vids)

And they are best in groups,which is why yin yang is so good,especially when used on either the sages or the rocketeers.
And the arrows own


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 Post subject: Re: Awefull balance of the Faction in MP
 Post Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 4:22 pm 
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i think as falcovet is saying, the chinese are slightly more a slower army benefiting from higher tech, and thus from larger maps /less rush etc.

this seems like a common thing in games. this means that the other two are being taken instead amongst uber competitive rush players, while the chinese are still fun and powerful in a longer game setting.

there is so much difference between the factions i find it increasingly hard to make judgements on which has an upper hand, and i know ronimo spent a long time trying to get game balance, which i know may be a near impossible task. the boulder jumping over towers thing for example i was unaware of, and many people would be, despite it changing the balance hugely. Chinese have a huge variety of fun spells, many of which hugely practical such as ying and yang for creating a powerful archer or zen master cluster to devastate oncoming enemies in firing range, where as vikings have very basic simple spells but mana research to do them quite often, and the simple rage rush is a remarkably multi useful spell.

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 Post subject: Re: Awefull balance of the Faction in MP
 Post Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 4:29 pm 
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and another comparison, chinese have ying yang to produce a clustered group of archers powerful enough to really wipe the enemy, where as vikings can use the rage/berserk rush to move up a horde together and to the front asides from using it as an attack if you wish, and aztecs create a horde of skeletons to hide behind to facilitate their clustering. also, aztec poison devastates clusters, as does chinese flaming arrows a bit, or viking freeze spell when an opposing force is nearby.

then of course you have the obvious stuff like for mana regeneration vikings have research on the tech tree, chinese get it from their towers, and aztecs from sacrifices (sun giants are so useful for this, they are scarey).

it's a remarkable game in terms of game balance and options. a fair bit of creative work.

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 Post subject: Re: Awefull balance of the Faction in MP
 Post Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 10:03 pm 
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But I'd like to think that each race is capable equally in any given situation. Especially in conditions that might be considered the standard for tournament play...

So I guess I'm interested in what Ronimo thinks is the standard battleground situation.

What you guys are all saying makes sense, but you're not really hearing me... You're all talking about how the Chinese have some great high tech and fun spells, but in all of the games me and my friends have been playing, the Chinese NEVER get a chance to keep a decent mana pool up to hardly cast anything, whereas Vikings and Aztecs are constantly generating mana easily and completely decimating the Chinese.

Some of you are claiming tower use to get the mana rolling for the Chinese, but what I keep trying to tell you is, towers that FIGHT BACK are hard enough to maintain, never mind the Chinese tower that does nothing but sit there, they get destroyed almost immediately.

You think the Chinese clone spell is of any use? I don't see it. The Chinese mana is too scarce to waste on it, and when you use it, Viking players can just spam lightning on you. Aztecs will poison your new clump and it's over. Now you're a Chinese player who just wasted what little mana he had, while Aztecs/Vikings haven't even flinched. Now you're back at 0 mana and the Vikings continue Lightning/Charge/Heal and Aztecs are sitting pretty with continuous poison bombs/cage.

Which leads me to Terra Cotta, of which I've yet to find a single use for. Sure they halt a few guys for a few moments, but the spell is insanely costly for this little use, and you can't even harass gold miners with Terra Cotta, the damage output is almost zero. Whereas Viking can insta-gib a gold miner with lightning, and Aztec can ruin your base area with poison.

Chinese just seem inferior all around. Inferior units, expensive and nearly useless magic (arrow rain is the only savior here), worst tower out of the 3, and the worst/hardest for generating mana. I'd really just LOVE to see a great Chinese player using tournament standard conditions pull off a victory against another great player (not someone from that earlier video that only spammed sun giants...)

You guys keep talking about the ultimate spells, which I honestly have no clue how any of you are capable of saving your mana to get to them. Whenever we try and save for them, we get destroyed by the other player using his low level spells constantly to bust through units easily.


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 Post subject: Re: Awefull balance of the Faction in MP
 Post Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 3:15 pm 
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in single player i found terracotta warriors very useful for attacking towers. the three of them pop up next to the tower so no closing the distance like with other units, taking off half it's health in attacks and distracting it a bit, while the army moves up and joins/supports the attack.

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