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 Post subject: Re: A reason to play: Awesomepoints
 Post Posted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 5:39 pm 
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tourrettturan wrote:
Smokey Joe wrote:
This is a pretty artificial method of extending the game's longevity. While I think it would add a little more of a social element to the game, it doesn't do much to solve the core issues people have with the game currently.


"artificial method"?
"fixing actual problems"?
"it doesn't do much to solve the core issues people have with the game currently"?

wow…..

When I play online the one problem that really needs "fixing" is the player base:
People force start, people rq if the game gets a bit tough or their treebank-rush fails, people rush turrets, when a bot gets exchanged with a human, people farm bots.
If motivation to play the game was higher and additional achievements change the objective of the gaming experience people wouldn't try to make every game a snowball.

But I guess it's easier to demand the developers to "fix" the game than to support a solution that works with incentives.


The implication you're making here is that everyone will stop doing all of those things the minute this is added. If there is an easier way to win, people will take advantage of it.

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 Post subject: Re: A reason to play: Awesomepoints
 Post Posted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 6:03 pm 
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Smokey Joe wrote:
tourrettturan wrote:
Smokey Joe wrote:
This is a pretty artificial method of extending the game's longevity. While I think it would add a little more of a social element to the game, it doesn't do much to solve the core issues people have with the game currently.


"artificial method"?
"fixing actual problems"?
"it doesn't do much to solve the core issues people have with the game currently"?

wow…..

When I play online the one problem that really needs "fixing" is the player base:
People force start, people rq if the game gets a bit tough or their treebank-rush fails, people rush turrets, when a bot gets exchanged with a human, people farm bots.
If motivation to play the game was higher and additional achievements change the objective of the gaming experience people wouldn't try to make every game a snowball.

But I guess it's easier to demand the developers to "fix" the game than to support a solution that works with incentives.


The implication you're making here is that everyone will stop doing all of those things the minute this is added. If there is an easier way to win, people will take advantage of it.


It wouldn't magically stop it, but it definitely would make a change. We need to promote anything that will put a dent in some of the issues and get people playing and staying in matches. An inventive to stay with penalties not to quit are what other successful games have. I really see no downside to this idea besides the programming time it would take.

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 Post subject: Re: A reason to play: Awesomepoints
 Post Posted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 6:13 pm 
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Smokey Joe wrote:
tourrettturan wrote:
Smokey Joe wrote:
This is a pretty artificial method of extending the game's longevity. While I think it would add a little more of a social element to the game, it doesn't do much to solve the core issues people have with the game currently.


"artificial method"?
"fixing actual problems"?
"it doesn't do much to solve the core issues people have with the game currently"?

wow…..

When I play online the one problem that really needs "fixing" is the player base:
People force start, people rq if the game gets a bit tough or their treebank-rush fails, people rush turrets, when a bot gets exchanged with a human, people farm bots.
If motivation to play the game was higher and additional achievements change the objective of the gaming experience people wouldn't try to make every game a snowball.

But I guess it's easier to demand the developers to "fix" the game than to support a solution that works with incentives.


The implication you're making here is that everyone will stop doing all of those things the minute this is added. If there is an easier way to win, people will take advantage of it.


I didn't want to make that implication, sorry.
Incentives don't work like that sadly, but they will have an effect on the player-habits I described if playing "fair" games and accomplishing stuff in them is encouraged.
(Like: finishing 10games)

The implication you and others are making all over the forums (whine-threads and balance sub-forum) is that Ronimo can solve the MOBA-Puzzle someday and create an environment where there's no complaints to be made anymore.
This is a fallacy:
There will always be better and worse tactics.
In MtG you call cards that are bad considering their environment sometimes a "skill-tester" which means you need skill to figure out that the card/upgrade is bad at a given Patch/Meta/Set/Format.

"If there is an easier way to win, people will take advantage of it."
True, but where is the connection to Corpit's idea?



I would really like for the Devs to take a little break from Balancing after they "fixed" the current flavours of the month in balance-complaining like YuriCC, VoltarScaling and SkolldirOP-ness to work on this system to encourage long-term addiction to this game and a tool to influence the playerbase slightly like Corpit is presenting here.

Foxy is on the horizon too.

Maybe one day we have to sit back and enjoy the things Ronimo has done (sometimes while listening to the community) like:
- Fixing Lonestar's Scaling back in 1.15/1.18
- Repricing Coco
- Introduce the "possibility" to have a 3v3 more regularly with the force-start mechanic
- More hp on turrets to make 7min rushes more rare
- Fix a ton of bugs
- The end of the solar-meta
....



Aside, off topic and even more derailing:
If I would be the evil overlord of ronimo I would try to implement this grass-root idea and make soloq mechanically more alike scrims:
- more tools for communication
- pregamechat
- possibility to view teammates build before the game and ingame

@Smokey Joe:
I too think that snowballing is the biggest "problem" in the game, but I really disagree with your solutions.

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 Post subject: Re: A reason to play: Awesomepoints
 Post Posted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 6:47 pm 
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As reply the to the latest replies here:
Guys try to keep it ontopic, I do like it that you share your honest opinions but this isn't the place to discuss -all- problems the game has. I thought of a system like this because I actually do believe it can improve the game on some important sections. I'll shorty try to explain which sections will be improved according to me:

Matchmaking:
There have been numerous negative posts which target the current matchmaking system. It’s completely understandable that you don’t want to be matched against too strong or too weak opponents, and in the perfect situation you would always be matched with opponents of the same skill level. In one of the rage threads, Joost pointed out the exact reason why we don’t have a flawless matchmaking system.
Joost wrote:
The big problem here that you folks don't seem to realise is how small L1 and L2 really are. To actually get a full match within a decent amount of time, you need a LOT of players.

Since not all of us would like to wait 20 minutes for a decent game, we must accept to play with and against opponents of a slightly lower or higher skill level.

How would a system like this improve the matchmaking? I do believe that players will play the game more with a system like this. Because of two major reasons: The first reason is because players will get less frustrated about losing a game, currently you 'only lose' when losing, which provokes rage. You would've been better off by 'not playing the last match' according to the leaderboard.

The second reason is because these 'greater goals' and challenges are an excellent way to encourage players to play more. If you've got 71 kills, and the challange asks you to get 75... you would play 'just one more game' to get your goal. Because you've an additional reason to play. I do believe these two reasons can make current players play more, and keep new players longer in. Thus increasing the amount of players playing the game, and the hours they play, in general.

This also applies to lagg. With a larger playerbase you will be more likely to be matched against opponents which have less lagg for you. Currently, if three Chinese players want to play.. they will get matched against the closest opponents, say.. Russians. They will have a lot lagg. But if 50 Chinese players would be playing, they will be matched mostly against each other. Thus they would experience less lagg, and others as well.

I wouldn't claim that this is a solution to everything. But to say it doesn't solve anything is a bit narrowminded in my opinion.

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 Post subject: Re: A reason to play: Awesomepoints
 Post Posted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 7:11 pm 
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This isn't even that hard to implement, do it Romero seriously

Visual effects, skin adjustments, and custom emblems are awesome

Also give the special emblems like duck a new bright border that makes them stand out :idea:


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 Post subject: Re: A reason to play: Awesomepoints
 Post Posted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 7:26 pm 
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This system looks and sounds Awesomenautic (it will be a thing!) and probably not too hard to implement. Everything else that could come to mind has already been said, so...
GIMMEDISINEEDITNOW!

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 Post subject: Re: A reason to play: Awesomepoints
 Post Posted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 7:45 pm 
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tourrettturan wrote:
I didn't want to make that implication, sorry.
Incentives don't work like that sadly, but they will have an effect on the player-habits I described if playing "fair" games and accomplishing stuff in them is encouraged.
(Like: finishing 10games)

The implication you and others are making all over the forums (whine-threads and balance sub-forum) is that Ronimo can solve the MOBA-Puzzle someday and create an environment where there's no complaints to be made anymore.
This is a fallacy:
There will always be better and worse tactics.
In MtG you call cards that are bad considering their environment sometimes a "skill-tester" which means you need skill to figure out that the card/upgrade is bad at a given Patch/Meta/Set/Format.

"If there is an easier way to win, people will take advantage of it."
True, but where is the connection to Corpit's idea?



I would really like for the Devs to take a little break from Balancing after they "fixed" the current flavours of the month in balance-complaining like YuriCC, VoltarScaling and SkolldirOP-ness to work on this system to encourage long-term addiction to this game and a tool to influence the playerbase slightly like Corpit is presenting here.

Foxy is on the horizon too.

Maybe one day we have to sit back and enjoy the things Ronimo has done (sometimes while listening to the community) like:
- Fixing Lonestar's Scaling back in 1.15/1.18
- Repricing Coco
- Introduce the "possibility" to have a 3v3 more regularly with the force-start mechanic
- More hp on turrets to make 7min rushes more rare
- Fix a ton of bugs
- The end of the solar-meta
....



Aside, off topic and even more derailing:
If I would be the evil overlord of ronimo I would try to implement this grass-root idea and make soloq mechanically more alike scrims:
- more tools for communication
- pregamechat
- possibility to view teammates build before the game and ingame

@Smokey Joe:
I too think that snowballing is the biggest "problem" in the game, but I really disagree with your solutions.


My implication is separate from others on this forum. Balance may never be perfect, although it's good to always strive to improve it. We've actually made a lot of good headway in the past, and most of what we've broken recently were attempts at improving nauts who were already fairly well balanced (Coco, Raelynn). Or just making retarded decisions that don't actually address anything at all (Leon's cloak).

My interest is in abolishing the gaming sin of feeding and unwinnable games, which MOBAs are already guilty of in general. You don't see either of these as much in other games like TF2 because character strength is not as variable and one teammate dying won't make the enemy stronger (in combination with you being a teammate down). Map balance is also subject. I actually want Ronimo to stop rapidly changing characters so they can spend a patch working on these issues. Regardless of character balance, I don't have fun in this game if I don't feel like I'm in control of my own victory or defeat.

For the record, I'm not opposing this topic as a feature to the game. I just don't agree that it will "fix" the game. The game's problems are mechanical and I think the game's longevity will be most secured by addressing the root causes.

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 Post subject: Re: A reason to play: Awesomepoints
 Post Posted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 8:35 pm 
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While this is indeed a cool customization thing that adds a bit of individuality, more core issues must be adressed before this is implamented.


I'm on board with Joe with the "Fix Snowballing Goddammit". Bounty system, or make kills give no solar reward. (Some people will argue with me on this).

Give Mic support.

Make force starting not a thing, wait until 6 people have entered a match for a game to start.

Remove the concept of "Locking in" I should be able to change my character to the last second.

Make me able to see what my teamates have picked. Implement a team/allchat feature in waiting room.


However we all know Ronimo will just vomit out more content instead of fixing the core issues of the game.

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 Post subject: Re: A reason to play: Awesomepoints
 Post Posted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 9:03 pm 
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What people don't seem to understand here is that:
Noone can see any flaw in Corpit's idea aside from the time it would take Ronimo not to work on stuff they deem more important.
So the only argument raised against Awesomepoints until now is:
Yes, but my solution is better.
Yes, but other matters are more pressing.

Not many ideas can be accepted on as easily as Corpit's imho.
Most ideas I read in these forums are horrible imho.

The idea would allow players to help with figuring out solutions to the current problems, not by complaining but ingame and in the tactics section of the forums.
Quote:
With a system like this, players are encouraged to play the game more, to try to achieve and get something new. And probably most importantly, be rewarded for playing the game. By giving players additional goals to play the game for it can raise their motivation to play on during difficult games.

Quote:
I wouldn't claim that this is a solution to everything. But to say it doesn't solve anything is a bit narrowminded in my opinion.



I suggest people giving their 2cents here as well:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=26954
for daniel to have more community input of what people believe will help make the game better.
I personally believe that Awesomepoints holds a lot of potential, that doesn't mean that other things aren't important.
I do think though that Awesomepoints would give Ronimo some room to breathe and have an "artificial" tool to broaden the playerbase while also motivating players to play the game/don't rq (if it gets though; if it isn't their favorite map; random reason besides lacking skill)/show off with shiny achievements (the collecting part has always helped make players addicted to a game) and to just simply change the objective from winning a bit.

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 Post subject: Re: A reason to play: Awesomepoints
 Post Posted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 7:20 am 
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I believe you are the one who propose about this BrSiGo Emblem back then too right? I am not sure where that topic is now but I love it.

I am also FREAKING LOVE THIS ONE TOO :drone:

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