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 Post subject: A Major Flaw in the MMS
 Post Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 7:45 pm 
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Joined: Wed Aug 20, 2014 1:44 am
Posts: 2001
Location: Maybe far away or maybe real near by.
In light of the recent developments regarding the state of the game's leaderboards, I've been doing some thinking about whether the current matchmaking system is actually good. I'm not referring to the fact that the range of rating of the player in a given match has tended to be on the more wide spread side. Despite how much I make fun of the feeding of team mates, I have seen enough games to side with Ronimo on the explanation that the MMS is doing its best with each match and the problem is merely the fact that there aren't enough players playing at one time in order to place everyone with players of a similar rank. This is not the issue I've acknowledged recently.

The basic fact that I realized was related to something that's been in our faces this whole time, but no one has minded or to my knowledge addressed thoroughly due to the fact that an alternative existed that mostly made the issue irrelevant. However, I've realized that there is an issue so big, that I regret not bringing it up before.

The Rating of a player should never stagnate. Period.

The one thing I've heard most about the current leaderboards is that they were not intended to stimulate progression, but rather be a system by which the MMS gives you the best results. This means that all the leaderboard reset will do is mess with the already established caculations. However, after rescent consideration, I'm starting to think that the origional MMS was designed around the leaderboards resetting in the first place.

The notion that the MMS is an acurate representation of a players skill is a dificult position to defend without existance of a seasonal reset. As it is, you play enough matches, you won't be able to climb or fall beyond a hundred rating every couple of days. This means that the MMS treats skill as something that reaches a conclutoin which in light ofmany factors, is innacurate to the nature of skill. Skill is something that develops over time and fluxuates depending on several factors relating to the player.

This has lead me to believe that the leaderboard reset is the only factor of the MMS that takes changes in skill into acount since it gives players the opertunity to overcome their previous rating stagnation.

I rescently picked up Splatoon 2 for the Nintendo Switch and personally, I think that game's system is far better at working with your actual skill than this game. There are 12 rankings you can achieve. Ranks C- through S+. Everyone starts at C- and has to win several games to advance. You gain progress on a progress bar depending on the rating of the players in the match. If you lose enough times before filing the meeter, you drop down a rank and are placed in games with people of the lower rank. At first, I felt the need to only use the weapons I was best with since if I tried to pick up one that I wasn't that great with, I felt I would get severely punished for it. I was able to manage to get to B rank in one game mode with my good weapons this way though over time, I settled to trying one that I wasn't good with. I lost a fair amount until I was actually compotent at using the weapon and dropped down to C+ before being able to perform as well with that weapon as I could with my best. Part of the reason that I was even able to pick that weapon up was because it dropped me down to an easier level. However, instead of stagnating me at rank C+, I was able to climb back to rank B in hardly any time at all once I started winning as often as I had been with my other weapons and was playing against players aroundt he B rank skill rating in no time.

As is, the MMS doesn't account for improvement/delays in your skill/performance as I've played late season matches with winning sprees of up to 14-15 and not even broken gains of 300 rating. If what I'm currently doing is better than where I am in the MMS, I should be placed at a higher position. The only interesting thing about the matchmaking in the first place was the season resets as it was the only opertunity to actually progress in the MMS. Not even the resets help anyone improve. Once you stagnate, you get stuck in that place for up to 2 months depending on how much you play early on. This guarentees that you will not have the opertunity to play against anyone better than you to improve your skill level.

Additionally, this comes with a slew of issues as it encourages monotany rather than encouraging diversity.

Given you want to play against skilled players for a season, the Current MMS encourages:
- Using only your best naut(s).
- Playing with only the best people on your friends list (until you reach a high enough league that team mates won't commonly feed).
- Playing early season to get a top spot reguardless of whether you want to play or not.
- Sticking with the builds you've had work best for you.
- Using the game's best natus.

The current MMS discourages:
- Trying new characters or improving ones you havn't played in some time.
- Playing with friends who are new to the game/not as good at 2D games/havn't played in a while/don't have as much experiance/can't perform well in high leagues/don't know too many nauts that well/can only play some of the game's weaker nauts well/people who don't play well with your main/people who can only play occationally/etc etc etc...
- Discourages soloqueing
- Exparamenting with certain characters on certain maps in certain team comps.
- Exparamenting with new upgrades/new builds.
- Using the game's worst nauts.
- Playing the game when you can't get good team mates even if you want to really badly.
- Waiting to play on your own time early season, forcing you to play early if you want an innitial high spot.
- Playing after early season if you want to keep your high spot until everyone else has stagnated even if you really wan't to.
- Improvement with new characters (As you stagnate and can't test your new skills on better players)
- Not playing late season as you need to keep your skills on point if you want to get anywhere next season.
- Create alt aconuts to have another shot at climbing.

The disturbig thing about this is that is in light of our current situation. Ronimo has said that they do like the idea of having a new leaderboard that stimulates progression that is seperate from the MMS, having the MMS hidden. In light of this there are 4 situations that seem likely to happen.

1. This season stays as is forever, which would say "Screw you who wanted to play against good players." to 90% of the playerbase.

2. We get the split Leaderboards/MMS and the MMS never changes, which still stiulates absolute horrible stagnation.

3. We get the split Leaderboards/MMS and the MMS is reset seasonally

4. We get the split Leaderboatds/MMS and the MMS handles your skill more fluidly than it currently does due to the removal of MMS stagnation.

Out of all of these, the only option that I see as appropriate is 4. Leaderboard stagnation even with the presance of a seasonal reset is a major flaw and will harm the game. Instead of locking peolpe to one skill pool, allow them to move. Let them try new nauts without needing to worry about not being able to get back to where they were. Granted, it can drop them down to a certain level if they lose enough but it shouldn't be impossible to get back up to where they were after learning someone new. Bottom line is if they can improve, they should continue to improve without waiting 2 months for another shot.

Do the right thing. Remove MMS stagnation.

Diz Hydron wrote:
Catgame21234 wrote:
Hail Hydro

I'm not sure what I think about this. :think:

Winner of the Awesomenauts Guide Contest

 Post subject: Re: A Major Flaw in the MMS
 Post Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 11:16 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2014 7:35 pm
Posts: 884
Location: Grenoble, France
I just think Rating and MMR shouldn't be the same thing. There should be one seperate system for determing the Rating, and keep the system we already have for MMR.

When matching against an opponent, the game would take into account your MMR all the while discouraging games where you would gain only little (in terms of Rating). But your Rating would increase/decrease depending on the relative Rating of your opponents, in a non stagnating way. The amount of points you win/lose would be the same, no matter the amount of games you already played, there would be no "time" factor.

Maybe there are some flaws in my explanation (there sure are), but my point is that I want a good Ranking system instead of this mix of MMR/Rating that makes no sense, and shouldn't have ranks at all.

The major problem is that given the time that was necessary to develop the new matchmaking, I don't think we will see an improvement in that regard in the near future. In one year perhaps, if they start working on it right now

Admin of the Rollcage steam group
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 Post subject: Re: A Major Flaw in the MMS
 Post Posted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 4:14 pm 
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Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2014 6:49 pm
Posts: 1663
Location: England
I agree with you there although didn't really read everything. It doesn't make sense that eventually you gain or lose hardly any rating from wins or losses because that just assumes you stay at the same skill level forever. That's obviously wrong and you almost definitely will still get better from playing more, but still end up stuck somewhere.

Renorec wrote:
my brain at 1:23am is a horse riding aa human as large as a t-rex with machine guns.

 Post subject: Re: A Major Flaw in the MMS
 Post Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 2:36 pm 
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Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2015 7:08 pm
Posts: 534
Location: Poland
Bump because I agree

Steam -Rybak

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