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 Post subject: Re: What's going on
 Post Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2017 8:15 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: What's going on
 Post Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2017 8:43 pm 
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The Lord Protector wrote:


I mean the devs aren't replying to anything, while the game is in a terrible state currently :
    -The game is still full with gameplay bugs (Vinnie's DSH bug still hasn't been fixed even though it seemed like child's play according to people with IT experience, and Ted's current airstrike bug makes even die-hard Ted mains stop playing him :tear: ).
    -Technical bugs (the game often crashes when picking random, and overall super whacky party-system).
    -Awesomepoints are still a joke. (just give us golden weapons already :fist: )
    -And for me the biggest problem : The meta is literally a stall meta in pubs and in competitive... (partly due to a few of the already very controversial balance changes from last patch that Ronimo forced through regardless, :sleep: being the obvious one.)

The competitive scene died once again, I think this was mostly because of how terrible the overall experience was during the tournament (at least for me) because of the stall meta.


I dislike how the community is always negative towards Ronimo, normally I'm more neutral (even during the jokes that were release Smiles and Cuckit I was still playing after the 'hot'fixes) yet I completely agree with any negativity currently.
To me it feels like Awesomenauts no longer is priority number 1 for Ronimo.

Luckily I don't think Awesomenauts is done yet, that is if Ronimo were to become more active and keep the community alive by supporting tournaments or other events.
I remember the alienware tournaments bringing in a lot of interest to the competitive scene, why isn't this being continued without all the prize money?

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Last edited by Jas123c on Fri Dec 01, 2017 9:13 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: What's going on
 Post Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2017 9:05 pm 
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Gameinsky wrote:
Idk what you're getting at but if you're going to speak on such a tone then I guess this partially explains their lack of willingness to communicate.


ChrisD wrote:
tbh I wouldn't speak much either if I was Ronimo. Every month or so when I check into the forums I just see the same group of people griping and saying things that border on nothing but hateful words towards Ronimo for "not doing xyz right (that I totally could do better despite not being a dev)."


I still dislike this logic. Why do you guys think it's acceptable for a developer to cut off communication with the good players like you because of the bad ones? That's unfair to you. You're not bad people. You don't deserve to be punished.

Not only that, but in a multiplayer game, or even any game that someone's looking to update, it's kind of hard to update it without feedback from the community. You know, the same community that's going to be playing the game? The reason one becomes a developer, making a product that other people will enjoy?

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 Post subject: Re: What's going on
 Post Posted: Sat Dec 02, 2017 12:50 am 
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Armorend wrote:
stuff


It's called a vocal minority. Ronimo specifically listens to their vocal minorities for feedback, but there are plenty of people who have no stand in the community that enjoy the game nonetheless. The problems start once the vocal minority is in a constant state of criticism it's like if an artist who makes work that people are supposed to enjoy. Except this artist's followers only provide harsh criticism for every piece of art they create even if there were plenty of people who enjoyed it, but didn't say a word.

So when we're the vocal minority and we've behaved the way we have towards Ronimo causing alot of stupid things to happen behind the scenes especially with the community balancing team it'd make sense for Ronimo to cut communications with us specifically and just do their general stuff that most less invested players do notice like betas getting released and stuff.

I just doubt that Ronimo will provide people here with the answer that they want (In this forum anyway)

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 Post subject: Re: What's going on
 Post Posted: Sat Dec 02, 2017 2:47 am 
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Morrowsaw wrote:
It's called a vocal minority. Ronimo specifically listens to their vocal minorities for feedback, but there are plenty of people who have no stand in the community that enjoy the game nonetheless. The problems start once the vocal minority is in a constant state of criticism it's like if an artist who makes work that people are supposed to enjoy. Except this artist's followers only provide harsh criticism for every piece of art they create even if there were plenty of people who enjoyed it, but didn't say a word.

The moment I hear the words "vocal minority", I immediately die inside. Fun fact.

Balancing around the "silent majority" or whatever percentage of players do not voice their opinions is impossible. In fact, most things are. Where I come from, we do not elect people into office on the basis of what those who did not vote would have wanted, because we have no way of knowing what these silent people would have wanted. Same principle here—you want a say in balance, you need to have an actual say in balance. Everyone is welcome to.

I do not think saying "this artist's followers only provie harsh criticism" is fair, because they do not, and several of those that do not will take offence to that.

Morrowsaw wrote:
So when we're the vocal minority and we've behaved the way we have towards Ronimo causing alot of stupid things to happen behind the scenes especially with the community balancing team it'd make sense for Ronimo to cut communications with us specifically and just do their general stuff that most less invested players do notice like betas getting released and stuff.

I just doubt that Ronimo will provide people here with the answer that they want (In this forum anyway)

You see, the problem with this reasoning is that they are still more than happy to use our balance changes as basis for their own (often not changing them at all).

Heaven forfend also that someome receive criticism of their work—there is no such thing as deconstructive criticism: there is only criticism that is hard to swallow. Not pleasant, I admit, but necessary to learn.

No one on these forums just responds to everything Ronimo does with "I hate it" without providing a reason. Even I am not that shallow.

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 Post subject: Re: What's going on
 Post Posted: Sat Dec 02, 2017 7:56 am 
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The Lord Protector wrote:
Where I come from, we do not elect people into office on the basis of what those who did not vote would have wanted, because we have no way of knowing what these silent people would have wanted.


This is mainly where I disagree. In the country where I come from we had people who voted, but didn't state their opinion until they had to which left everyone surprised because the vocal minority of that situation assumed a different result would happen.

I'm not talking about the entirety of Nauts I'm talking about this forum in particular, and in the context of this forum the vocal minority is the group with heavy negativity.

The Lord Protector wrote:
You see, the problem with this reasoning is that they are still more than happy to use our balance changes as basis for their own (often not changing them at all).


The issue with this is that the group for said balance changes on that list disbanded. It no longer exists from what I've heard. The argument no longer exists that we used it in the past because in the present it is no longer relevant to Ronimo. So I guess in a way you're getting what you want and they're going to do 100% their own balance changes from here on out.

The Lord Protector wrote:
Heaven forbid also that someone receive criticism of their work—there is no such thing as deconstructive criticism: there is only criticism that is hard to swallow. Not pleasant, I admit, but necessary to learn.


But destructive criticism is very real and many people struggle with dealing with it, and the most common way that people deal with it is simply to tune it out. You can tell someone to grow thick skin all you want, but Ronimo are people as well with a project that they obviously care for a lot and constantly being told they can't do their own stuff correctly, that they don't understand anything about their community, or that X person could do it better is very damaging to a person no matter what. If all arguments could have thought put into them to relay a message i'd be fine with it, but there's a large difference between this


Gameinsky wrote:
Like, we just have radio silence. I'm worried, a lot of the remaining people really want this game to work. Sure it wasn't easy and we've staggered through 6 years but, what's going on?


Vs

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 Post subject: Re: What's going on
 Post Posted: Sat Dec 02, 2017 9:01 am 
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 Post subject: Re: What's going on
 Post Posted: Sat Dec 02, 2017 9:16 am 
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Morrowsaw wrote:
Armorend wrote:
stuff


The problems start once the vocal minority is in a constant state of criticism it's like if an artist who makes work that people are supposed to enjoy. Except this artist's followers only provide harsh criticism for every piece of art they create even if there were plenty of people who enjoyed it, but didn't say a word.

So when we're the vocal minority and we've behaved the way we have towards Ronimo causing alot of stupid things to happen behind the scenes especially with the community balancing team it'd make sense for Ronimo to cut communications with us specifically and just do their general stuff that most less invested players do notice like betas getting released and stuff.


I understand everything you said here but you basically wrote my subsequent argument for me: It's a vocal minority of a vocal minority that's causing problems.

Unless you want to admit you're part of the problem, and implicate myself in the past few days as part of the problem, and the mods like Alpha Z, Fish, Emo, etc. as just as bad as the people actually insulting/berating Ronimo, the argument is rendered moot. There's plenty of players out there who lurk here who want to see further communication from Ronimo, for one, but for two I'd guarantee you 100% there's a majority of players out of those who are vocal that wants Ronimo to continue communication and do not wish any intentional negativity against Ronimo.

These are the people I'm talking about. But even if the good people are a minority. I don't see why it matters. When I was in a middle school classroom and I was quiet while everyone else was talking, and I still got punished, I got upset to the point of crying. Being wrongly punished because of what others do, sucks. Particularly when group punishment's purpose is predominantly useful in the military. You know, where you can beat the everloving crap out of people who earn YOU a punishment or whatever. In a school situation, or online, you can't do that. I can't control what these negative people are doing.

And so it leads me to this: If it has to happen? Fine. If you want to say "Yeah it sucks now get over it." Fine. But I want the people DOING the punishing, the ones who feel that a minority of non-negative people in an otherwise negative community are irrelevant, to admit they're perfectly fine with pretending they don't exist and lumping them in with the bad eggs.

A big thing I've had people mention before when I bring this up is, "Armorend, Ronimo have feelings. They don't necessarily want to work on a game while being insulted/berated. It can discourage them."

Well, a few things for that:

1. There will always be negative people. Always. You made the wrong choice in existing at all if you thought you'd be able to avoid negativity somehow.

2. There's a way to get rid of more negative comments: Outlaw them. Crack down on them. Moderate more heavily. Make up more rules. I don't care. In-game, a viable way to deal with some toxic players is "just mute them." People on here advocate this and I think even Ronimo has. Same thing with people on these forums. If all they're doing is spewing vitriolic statements? Don't let them post. Or get rid of the negative posts. Anything that will let you do your jobs as effectively as possible.

3. I get that it can be discouraging to receive negative feedback, or just downright toxic statements. But, and I can't repeat this enough, it shouldn't mean taking out your frustration on the people who actually love and care about you and the game.

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 Post subject: Re: What's going on
 Post Posted: Sat Dec 02, 2017 9:36 am 
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Armorend wrote:
Well thought out stuff

Tbh I can't actually argue with you there. I don't like the situation either and I'd love for Ronimo to communicate with us, but in my opinion the reality of the situation is that Ronimo may have just moved on from the forums. I hope not either, but my point is that I can see why they'd behave this way as it's a perfectly reasonable option to go with when given unreasonable circumstance by others.

Nobody likes being generalized, and I understand that. I know that people still care. It's just harder to accept that fact when there are constant contradictions right in my face every day in this forum and I can't even imagine how that is for someone as invested as Ronimo's team. So yeah Ronimo are people and sure negativity cannot be helped, but in the end it's their choice on how to deal with it. And from my own experience in life people tend to just pick the easiest option to deal with a situation which in this case is to just ignore them.

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 Post subject: Re: What's going on
 Post Posted: Sat Dec 02, 2017 12:01 pm 
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Morrowsaw wrote:
The Lord Protector wrote:
You see, the problem with this reasoning is that they are still more than happy to use our balance changes as basis for their own (often not changing them at all).


The issue with this is that the group for said balance changes on that list disbanded. It no longer exists from what I've heard. The argument no longer exists that we used it in the past because in the present it is no longer relevant to Ronimo. So I guess in a way you're getting what you want and they're going to do 100% their own balance changes from here on out.


Uh, just came here to clear up a misunderstanding, the balance group still exists but is idle because we have had a ronimo member come in ONCE the past 2 months to discuss changes.

A lot of its people have left and I kicked off a troublemaker, but it still exists.

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