Register    Login    Forum    Search    FAQ Awesomenauts



Post new topic Reply to topic Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next

Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Tutorial should be skippable
 Post Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 11:06 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2015 9:18 pm
Posts: 225
Joost wrote:
However, as for new players, it is intended that they can't skip the tutorial. We've measured this extensively and the percentage of new players that still play the game 1 day and 7 days after first starting the game is significantly higher now that the tutorial can't be skipped.


Oh, good. Metrics. Those have worked out so well the past... :aylaroll:

Wasn't the new unskippable tutorial rolled out when Awesomenauts went F2P with 4.0? How can you compare retention numbers before and after F2P? The game is reaching a completely different audience now.

Lastly,

Image

This isn't exactly the picture of healthy player retention.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Remove unskippability of the tutorial
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 2:52 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Nov 01, 2013 5:07 am
Posts: 1332
GuyBrush wrote:
"Balance"

shut the hell up


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Tutorial should be skippable
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 3:46 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2015 3:50 am
Posts: 1580
ya are you serious? you guys completely revise the entire introduction to the game and have an entire new UI and progression system amongst other things. "hmm it must be the forced tutorial everyones complaining about thats increasing the retention rate"

_________________
Mains: :thumb: :derp: :worship: :think: :facepalm: :shady: :rocco: :jimmy:
steamcommunity.com/id/MrPillow92/
stream: twitch.tv/mrpillow0
Awesomenauts Rumble Tournament: http://awesomenautsrumble.com
Discord: https://discord.gg/nGCYF3k


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Tutorial should be skippable
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 5:06 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jul 14, 2013 11:33 am
Posts: 94
MrPillowTheGreat wrote:
ya are you serious? you guys completely revise the entire introduction to the game and have an entire new UI and progression system amongst other things. "hmm it must be the forced tutorial everyones complaining about thats increasing the retention rate"


Actually, I'm fairly sure A/B testing was used sometime around 4.0's release, dividing users into one group that is forced to play the tutorial before being allowed to access the rest of the game, and a group that was (presumably) allowed to play immediately, with the tutorial being offered as an option. Both groups saw the overhauled UI and progression system.

This claim is supported by the following line found in All.settings, hinting at a past A/B test related to the tutorial:
Code:
ABTest:ThreeMissionTutorial_selectExpression = 0


The only other A/B test in the game (which is still running) is that players with an odd RonimoID (the number shown next to names when typing "/users" in global chat) automatically re-queue upon finishing a match, while players with an even RonimoID do not.

Of course, the fact that the group of players who were forced to go through the tutorial were more likely to return does not mean that a completely unskippable tutorial is the best solution, as demonstrated by the Yogscast. Offering an alternative means of introduction, such as allowing the tutorial to be bypassed by being invited by a friend (with the friend replacing the tutorial as a guide through the game), would cover more scenarios than the current system does.

A lone player, totally new to Awesomenauts, playing the game for the first time may have been the most common case that the aforementioned metrics were gathered from (probably due to the measurements taking place during the F2P transition period, with testing being performed on players who received "beta keys"), but unless alternatives are provided for users from a different background, potential players will simply give up before getting into the game because of the long-winded tutorial. If the user in question happens to be a popular streamer, that's a large opportunity for publicity that's simply missed out on.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Tutorial should be skippable
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 11:08 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 13, 2013 6:49 pm
Posts: 2463
Location: Tomorrowland
Marukyu wrote:
Offering an alternative means of introduction, such as allowing the tutorial to be bypassed by being invited by a friend (with the friend replacing the tutorial as a guide through the game), would cover more scenarios than the current system does.



This honestly sounds like a really good solution tbh.

_________________
My concise guide to balancing
Cynderp wrote:
The year is 20XX. Everyone can play Awesomenauts to niki levels of perfection. All gameplay has been deemed irrelevant and matches are decided by a game of Roflnauts. All new metas are based on Roflnauts DMs.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Tutorial should be skippable
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 5:48 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2017 4:10 pm
Posts: 20
I'm for the skippable tutorial. I watched the gameplay, and I like it, otherwise I did not play the tutorial until the end

_________________
translate.google.ru


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Tutorial should be skippable
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 6:26 pm 
Offline
Ronimo Team Member
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 5:45 pm
Posts: 8972
lostsmu wrote:
... Wasn't the new unskippable tutorial rolled out when Awesomenauts went F2P with 4.0? How can you compare retention numbers before and after F2P? The game is reaching a completely different audience now. ...

If this change had been made in 4.0 then it would indeed the difference would indeed not have been measurable since so much changed then. However, while 4.0 added the new tutorial, it was skippable back then. The change to make it unskippable was added in update 4.2, allowing us to compare numbers from before and after.

The Lord Protector wrote:
... Based on what measurement of what playerbase conducted when?

For every day we collect data on which players started on that day, and we also collect data on whether they played again later. So we have a full graph that shows for each starting date what percentage of players came back 1 day and 7 days later. There's a clear jump in this graph at the release of update 4.2, which removed the option to skip the tutorial.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Tutorial should be skippable
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 6:48 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 28, 2015 10:24 am
Posts: 2500
Location: In my palace, mixing my martinis with paint thinner and a healthy squirt of epoxy adhesive.
Joost wrote:
For every day we collect data on which players started on that day, and we also collect data on whether they played again later. So we have a full graph that shows for each starting date what percentage of players came back 1 day and 7 days later. There's a clear jump in this graph at the release of update 4.2, which removed the option to skip the tutorial.

Just in the interests of understanding, are we talking about a "clear jump" of something like a 100% increase in the number of players remaining after seven days compared to the skippable tutorial, or has it improved the rate by a much smaller figure?

On top if that, can it be said to be making a difference to the overall health of the playerbase?

_________________
Say no to SAM wrote:
Give this guy a duck for making such a good job with this thread

Nekomian wrote:
Give this guy a duck lololol

DeezNauts wrote:
Nobody can see it. Maybe instead of asking for ducks, you should put it in your signature.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Tutorial should be skippable
 Post Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 12:49 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2014 7:35 pm
Posts: 954
Location: Grenoble, France
Joost wrote:
lostsmu wrote:
... Wasn't the new unskippable tutorial rolled out when Awesomenauts went F2P with 4.0? How can you compare retention numbers before and after F2P? The game is reaching a completely different audience now. ...

If this change had been made in 4.0 then it would indeed the difference would indeed not have been measurable since so much changed then. However, while 4.0 added the new tutorial, it was skippable back then. The change to make it unskippable was added in update 4.2, allowing us to compare numbers from before and after.

The Lord Protector wrote:
... Based on what measurement of what playerbase conducted when?

For every day we collect data on which players started on that day, and we also collect data on whether they played again later. So we have a full graph that shows for each starting date what percentage of players came back 1 day and 7 days later. There's a clear jump in this graph at the release of update 4.2, which removed the option to skip the tutorial.

Just wanted to say I'm trusting Joost for this.

All those threads that are like "wtf i have to go through an unskippable tutorial. I'm not gonna play this" are from people who would bash the game anyway. They're just looking for reasons to not play the game.

But for real newbies, I would clearly see a situation where the newcomer takes it "na i don't need a tutorial, let's do this", goes to a real match, and gets absolutely owned.

At least with the tutorial it forces the newbies to have a minimal understanding of the game, and I think it's good that Ronimo did it unskippable.

If you really are a returning player, you will do it in like 15 min max anyway. Why would you complain about a 15 min tutorial when matchmaking is 6 minutes long, and matches are ~20 minutes? Come on guys..

We all know reasons why Awesomenauts do not retain its newbie playerbase ; unskippable tutorial is not one of them.

_________________
Admin of the Rollcage steam group
GRIP - Intense futuristic combat racer


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Tutorial should be skippable
 Post Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 1:37 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 13, 2013 6:49 pm
Posts: 2463
Location: Tomorrowland
potterman28wxcv wrote:
If you really are a returning player, you will do it in like 15 min max anyway. Why would you complain about a 15 min tutorial when matchmaking is 6 minutes long, and matches are ~20 minutes? Come on guys..

We all know reasons why Awesomenauts do not retain its newbie playerbase ; unskippable tutorial is not one of them.


Ok, a couple of misconceptions here.
The tutorial is at least half an hour but usually takes 45 minutes, not 15 minutes.
It's mostly people who want to queue with friends who find it an issue and the fact that this obstacle is there causes the 45 minutes to feel like longer than it actually is.
It's less of an issue if you were going to soloQ anyway.


It's why I like Marukyu's solution, it solves the common case while keeping the intention intact.
Getting invited by a friend and playing a match with them should make the tutorial skippable imo.

_________________
My concise guide to balancing
Cynderp wrote:
The year is 20XX. Everyone can play Awesomenauts to niki levels of perfection. All gameplay has been deemed irrelevant and matches are decided by a game of Roflnauts. All new metas are based on Roflnauts DMs.


Top 
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
 
Post new topic Reply to topic Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next