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 Post subject: For God's Sake, give us Drafts in main queue!
 Post Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 10:53 pm 
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I haven't heard a single good explanation why YOU (Ronimo) can't make some kind of quick draft system in the main queue. Yea, I'm not talking about splitting the queue, just make it the mandatory mode for everybody. :leoneyes: People want this!!! And we already have custom games and even brawls that should obviously stay the way they are, just for fun or whatever. But put a god damn draft system in ranked mode! And why you're at it, improve the Leaderboards to not just being an internal skill indicator for matchmaking! People actually like to move up and down in the ladder from time to time, not just after it gets reset.

Really, how hard is it to do these things to just be there at least? Right now, there is literally nothing to play for but failed awesomepoints and team comps literally decide matches all the time, it's insane! Some people actually used to think that showing the map would be a bad idea, but how is more information before matches ever a bad idea??? I just want to see what I'm going to be facing and choose my Naut accordingly.. plus actually to use the team chat in the selection screen for something! :shady:

Look, I understand it's hard... but it really doesn't have to be perfect, we just need SOMETHING right now! At least give us a working skateboard now before you go work on a bicycle or a full blown race car! You can still do all those great things later while we already enjoy the skateboard. (I hope you get the metaphor :yoolip: )

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 Post subject: Re: For God's Sake, give us Drafts in main queue!
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:07 am 
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you know that 90% of players will just pick who they want regardless of the situation, right
i don't see how drafts are so fundamental and important to you


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 Post subject: Re: For God's Sake, give us Drafts in main queue!
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:15 am 
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kathy wrote:
you know that 90% of players will just pick who they want regardless of the situation, right
i don't see how drafts are so fundamental and important to you

That's not how it works in all other games that have drafts. Even games that Ronimo seemingly has to copy like HotS. But for some weird reason they copied the part that absolutely doesn't fit into this game (their XP/Teamlevel/Snowball-System) and left out the draft system that would have actually made this game way more interesting.

It's almost like they thought "ok, we'll just copy this part because if we copy more everybody will notice that we obviously copied from HotS" and stopped. If you're going to copy as blatantly as you did from HotS, at least don't just do it half-way and stop before you get the best parts.

EDIT: Grammar

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Last edited by DeezNauts on Thu Dec 21, 2017 4:39 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: For God's Sake, give us Drafts in main queue!
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:18 am 
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Right now, matches are more or less decided by who you are lucky enough to be up against. Ayla versus Leon tends to go well for her, where Ayla versus Derpl... less so.

While draft picks would make team composition more strategic, it would also kill 60% of the cast stone dead—especially those that have clearer counters.

I do not even want to imagine the horror that would result from the enemy being able to see I had picked Ayla in the first place. Clunk versus Ksenia, anyone? How about the good old "ranged harassers versus the melee team"?

Draft pick works in Dota and LoL (and HotS) because of the sheer number of choices you have, along with the increased team sizes. You can counterpick the counterpicks, so to speak (see: Oracle). In Awesomenauts, this luxury would not exist. If someone counterpicks your Leon, your team is now one-third dead weight.

This is not viable.

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 Post subject: Re: For God's Sake, give us Drafts in main queue!
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:23 am 
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The Lord Protector wrote:
those that have clearer counters.

Well, how about they make the game, you know, balanced then? I agree it probably won't be balanced at first, as nothing is. But that's not the fault of a draft system, if the balance can't handle it.

The Lord Protector wrote:
Draft pick works in Dota and LoL (and HotS) because of the sheer number of choices you have, along with the increased team sizes. You can counterpick the counterpicks, so to speak (see: Oracle). In Awesomenauts, this luxury would not exist. If someone counterpicks your Leon, your team is now one-third dead weight.

Then explain to me how it worked in literally every competitive tournament match so far?

How is playing completely random opponents better? How is going totally blind into a match better than seeing something?

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Last edited by DeezNauts on Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: For God's Sake, give us Drafts in main queue!
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:29 am 
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'Nauts having clear counters is a sign of a balanced game. Unfortunately, countering a pick is more more damaging in 3 vs. 3 than it is in 5 vs. 5.

I also forgot to address this:
DeezNauts wrote:
That's not how it works in all other games that have drafts.

That is exactly how it worked in Dota. That is more or less word-for-word how it worked.

In fact, it was so bad that a mandatory picking order had to be implemented in soloqueue games simply because players were (and had been for years) not picking until the very last second and then all spamming their picks to prevent counterpicks.

There was neither skill not strategy involved in it: 59 seconds would go by and then, suddenly, everyone on both teams picked at the same time—often their favourites or the flavour of the month (usually someone like Phantom Assassin, who demonstrates perfectly how important countering a character is).

EDIT:
DeezNauts wrote:
Then explain to me how it worked in literally every competitive tournament match so far?

Because competitive Awesomenauts is a far more coordinated and organised affair than soloqueue Awesomenauts. That which works in one is not guaranteed to work in another.

I also do not think that players would want to put so much thought into just picking their 'Nauts. If I wanted to be strategic, I would play Dota/HotS, not Awesomenauts.

Awesomenauts is supposed to be the between-games game, not the next big E-Sport.

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Give this guy a duck for making such a good job with this thread

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 Post subject: Re: For God's Sake, give us Drafts in main queue!
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:36 am 
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The Lord Protector wrote:
That is exactly how it worked in Dota. That is more or less word-for-word how it worked.

In fact, it was so bad that a mandatory picking order had to be implemented in soloqueue games simply because players were (and had been for years) not picking until the very last second and then all spamming their picks to prevent counterpicks.

There was neither skill not strategy involved in it: 59 seconds would go by and then, suddenly, everyone on both teams picked at the same time—often their favourites or the flavour of the month (usually someone like Phantom Assassin, who demonstrates perfectly how important countering a character is).

Why the F*** are you talking about when it didn't work? Of course you would need to have an order for picking. That's why they changed it... :think:

The Lord Protector wrote:
Awesomenauts is supposed to be the between-games game, not the next big E-Sport.

This is why the game is dying. Because of the sheer small-mindedness of this community. Has everybody just unlearned to think BIG?! :drool:

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Last edited by DeezNauts on Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:40 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: For God's Sake, give us Drafts in main queue!
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:37 am 
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That part of the post relates back to the "counterpicking a 'Naut makes the dead weight" thing I had going before.

I feel both having a picking order and not having a picking would be equally as disastrous, but for different ways.

EDIT:

Posting and then editing posts from earlier introduces a whole layered dynamic to this that I never knew existed. It is like having a conversation with someone where what has been said is in a constant state of shift and new points spring up from the past.

DeezNauts wrote:
This is why the game is dying. Because of the sheer small-mindedness of this community. Has everybody just unlearned to think BIG?! :drool:

I would argue that this is the reason the game is dying/has died/has looped back around to being alive.

Awesomenauts had a great thing going when it played to its strengths and appealed to the demographic of "casual MOBA that is also a platformer".

In my opinion, as soon as Awesomenauts started to try and be like the other MOBAs with their silly XP mechanics and percentages and daily missions and more competitive game balance, we completely lost the plot.

That, and the fact Ronimo sold their spark of creativity for a cheeseburger and small fries—to share.

Please, other people, do chime in. I cannot explain any of what I just said.

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Give this guy a duck for making such a good job with this thread

Nekomian wrote:
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DeezNauts wrote:
Nobody can see it. Maybe instead of asking for ducks, you should put it in your signature.


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 Post subject: Re: For God's Sake, give us Drafts in main queue!
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:03 am 
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The Lord Protector wrote:
In my opinion, as soon as Awesomenauts started to try and be like the other MOBAs with their silly XP mechanics and percentages and daily missions and more competitive game balance, we completely lost the plot.

I strongly agree with this, as you probably know already. But they should either commit fully to this "being like other MOBAS" thing, or pull back completely to the simple state the game was designed for since the beginning. Literally everything in this game is more simple. from the graphics to the skills, even up to the whole theme and feel of the game. And I very much agree this is what made the game good.

But whatever, at least if you are trying to make it like other MOBAS, GO THROUGH WITH IT, not just half-a** it and keep it floating mid way in this weird limbo perpetually. The damn game doesn't know what it is anymore! Go through with it or pull out and go back with it! There is no middle way! Nobody wants this!

We NEED drafts now, since you made comps so important that going into a match completely blind gives you a big chance of losing just due to comps. This wasn't the case before. You used to be able to outskill your opponent with any char and with any team. You could carry any game just by knowing how to play. You didn't need to worry about comps or maps or chars as nearly as much as you do now. For this reason, drafts are extremely necessary. You wanted to go in this direction and be like other MOBAS, but now you are just being silly not implementing drafts despite being half way inside and at the same time not pulling out either.

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Last edited by DeezNauts on Thu Dec 21, 2017 2:12 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: For God's Sake, give us Drafts in main queue!
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 2:02 am 
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quality thread

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