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 Post subject: Re: Interesting stuff from the Ronimo site
 Post Posted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 10:36 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Interesting stuff from the Ronimo site
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 12:35 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Interesting stuff from the Ronimo site
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 5:11 am 
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I imagine the amount of criticism and abuse they receive on a daily basis would wear anybody out eventually, making them reluctant to even open their social media accounts. The fact is the bigger something gets, the more criticism it gets, and while some of us actually have backgrounds in game design/testing/development, the number of people spitting their opinions in Ronimo's face with no tact constitutes the vast majority of their feedback. I can't imagine it's all sunshine and roses at their office. Maybe it was at the beginning when people were just excited to have a brand new game to play, but now there are expectations and know-it-all veterans to deal with and while Ronimo has done a phenomenal job with Awesomenauts for the most part, they just aren't the team to take this game to the level that the community wants it to be at. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying they don't deserve any of the criticism they get, but all that negativity will inevitably break a company's spirit and make things less enjoyable for everyone. So while progress on the game is slow and frustrating, it's still better than if they stopped working on the game altogether because they finally got fed up with the amount of garbage we throw at them.

Staying positive is really the only thing we can do for Ronimo and Awesomenauts and it's not like they're not trying it themselves. Every stream I can see the wonder and innocence depleting from their faces a little more. They try and act like they're still having fun but I guarantee you it's nothing like it was in 2013 for them.


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 Post subject: Re: Interesting stuff from the Ronimo site
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 1:17 pm 
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Luckytime wrote:
I imagine the amount of criticism and abuse they receive on a daily basis would wear anybody out eventually, making them reluctant to even open their social media accounts. The fact is the bigger something gets, the more criticism it gets, and while some of us actually have backgrounds in game design/testing/development, the number of people spitting their opinions in Ronimo's face with no tact constitutes the vast majority of their feedback. I can't imagine it's all sunshine and roses at their office. Maybe it was at the beginning when people were just excited to have a brand new game to play, but now there are expectations and know-it-all veterans to deal with and while Ronimo has done a phenomenal job with Awesomenauts for the most part, they just aren't the team to take this game to the level that the community wants it to be at. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying they don't deserve any of the criticism they get, but all that negativity will inevitably break a company's spirit and make things less enjoyable for everyone. So while progress on the game is slow and frustrating, it's still better than if they stopped working on the game altogether because they finally got fed up with the amount of garbage we throw at them.

Staying positive is really the only thing we can do for Ronimo and Awesomenauts and it's not like they're not trying it themselves. Every stream I can see the wonder and innocence depleting from their faces a little more. They try and act like they're still having fun but I guarantee you it's nothing like it was in 2013 for them.

Thank you.

If we continue bashing them, we kill Ronimo's morale. If we kill Ronimo's morale, we indirectly kill the game, in addition of preventing new players to join the game because of all the negativity on the forum.

We all love Awesomenauts, and we need Ronimo if we want the game to progress. Without them, Awesomenauts will be nothing but a memory of the past. Them continuing working on it is our only hope of bringing Awesomenauts to higher grounds.

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 Post subject: Re: Interesting stuff from the Ronimo site
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 1:46 pm 
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Let me waddle into this argument with all the grace of a 747 in a nose dive.

There is an extremely fine line between encouraging someone to try and actively lying to them about their work. While I agree that all-caps ranting on the level of YungGoat is not productive (simply because they never made any actual points), you must be careful not to instill a sense of blind optimism in Ronimo by seeing no fault. This is not something that is helped by none of them ever communicating anything with the people they are supposed to be working with, and if someone replies to that sentence with "but we did this to ourselves" I will unleash an absolute wall of text that will make the Chinese jealous.

One the one hand, we want Ronimo to feel like they are achieving something productive—on the other hand, they have not actually done that in recent months by any measure of quality*.

What would you like us to say? "You're really taking the feedback on board, Ronimo! Look at these highly varied and interesting new 'Nauts!" What does that achieve? What does that service apart from lowering the standard of what new players might expect by about seventeen feet? Obviously, it is a damn sight better than:

"JESUS GOD ROMOMO WHAT IS THIS TRASH WHY ARE YOU SO INCOMPETETENT AT EVERYTHING WE SAID YOU ARE BAD AND YOU ARE BAD AHAHAHAXAXAXAJAJA."

Can we also not do the "if your opinions are not exactly my own, you are against me/wrong" level of tribalism that could be found in the average KS3 classroom?

* I seriously challenge someone to rationally explain to me how the Renegades are a measure fo quality. Indeed, I challenge anyone to explain to me how things like the skill indicators were successful.

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 Post subject: Re: Interesting stuff from the Ronimo site
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 2:20 pm 
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The Lord Protector wrote:
* I seriously challenge someone to rationally explain to me how the Renegades are a measure fo quality. Indeed, I challenge anyone to explain to me how things like the skill indicators were successful.

I don't care about Renegades, or their work in the past year. I don't give a damn about it. This is not the point of the discussion.

All discussions do not have to revolve around Ronimo's competence or incompetence. You can also discuss about Awesomenauts lore, the latest Rae montage, or how the weather is like, idk. A game forum does not have to be a justice court.

The comments like "RONIMO * DEVS" a-la YungGoat are actually nothing compared to yours. YungGoat's are your generic trashtalk stuff that no one takes seriously. Yours, on the other hand, is elaborated and genuinely mean, as if you're writing in each comment the result of years of containing your anger towards Ronimo's incompetence.

I'm asking you and others (if possible) to put aside their incompetence/competence, and to instead focus on the actual game and whatever revolves around Awesomenauts that does not have to do with whether or not they are competent. Could you do that? Or would it scratch you so hard that you would have to dump your daily "100 reasons why Ronimo is incompetent" blog post anyway?

The Lord Protector wrote:
Can we also not do the "if your opinions are not exactly my own, you are against me/wrong" level of tribalism that could be found in the average KS3 classroom?

It does not change the fact that comments like this indirectly contribute to kill the game.

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 Post subject: Re: Interesting stuff from the Ronimo site
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 2:57 pm 
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potterman28wxcv wrote:
I don't care about Renegades, or their work in the past year. I don't give a damn about it. This is not the point of the discussion.

Then what, precisely, are you basing the negativity talk on if not for the very things that are causing the negativity?

We do not complain about Awesomenauts because it used to be good; we complain because it is now going very rapidly south, or am I missing something?

potterman28wxcv wrote:
All discussions do not have to revolve around Ronimo's competence or incompetence. You can also discuss about Awesomenauts lore, the latest Rae montage, or how the weather is like, idk. A game forum does not have to be a justice court.

What Awesomenauts lore? Which one of you have ever, in the years these forums have been in use, ever tried to discuss the lore? The closest thing I can remember is that ancient lore compendium thread-thing that died when the author left the forums, and even then, that was a one-off affair.

Please do not come out with the old "oh, you could be doing so much better if you..." only to then list things that not one of you has ever indulged yourselves in at any point in this game's history. That is a strawman so massive and straw-filled that their little straw-legs are snapping under the combined weight of straw-mass.

What do you expect to be discussed in the most active subforum if not for balance? We could talk about the weather, or we could talk about more pressing issues... like, say, the balance. In the balance subforum. If we want to discuss the weather, we could do that in Off-Topic (not that anyone here demonstrates even the slighest interest in the weather, mind you).

potterman28wxcv wrote:
The comments like "RONIMO * DEVS" a-la YungGoat are actually nothing compared to yours. YungGoat's are your generic trashtalk stuff that no one takes seriously. Yours, on the other hand, is elaborated and genuinely mean, as if you're writing in each comment the result of years of containing your anger towards Ronimo's incompetence.

Flattery aside, is what I say wrong? Am I ever willingly incorrect? Are any of the naysayers every actually lying? Was it wrong to say that rushing F2P would doom it? Was it wrong to say that communication was going down the pan?

I could understand the displeasure towards me being negative if I were just spouting meaningless, albeit very sexily contrusted, drivel, but sticking your head in the sand and pretending that the game will improve if continually showered with praise and good will is a perfect demonstration of exactly what I was just talking about (and the thing you have so carefully avoided responding to for some reason).

Sarcasm is also hard to pick up on through text, I admit. Bricks come to mind.

potterman28wxcv wrote:
I'm asking you and others (if possible) to put aside their incompetence/competence, and to instead focus on the actual game and whatever revolves around Awesomenauts that does not have to do with whether or not they are competent. Could you do that? Or would it scratch you so hard that you would have to dump your daily "100 reasons why Ronimo is incompetent" blog post anyway?

Focus on the actual game?

So, my opinion of what is right and wrong with Awesomenauts is invalid simply because it is now a flower-laden as you would like it to be? I am not going to preach for people to be more realistic and then myself be a massive hypocrite about it. That would just be wrong.

I also do not dump daily "100 reasons why Ronimo is incompetent" and I will reward the person that trawls through my post history to prove that to the contrary.

potterman28wxcv wrote:
It does not change the fact that comments like this indirectly contribute to kill the game.

I think there are far more pressing issues that are killing the game than "he said she said".

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 Post subject: Re: Interesting stuff from the Ronimo site
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 3:25 pm 
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potterman28wxcv wrote:

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You can also discuss about Awesomenauts lore, the latest Rae montage (...)


Rae montage!?

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Once upon a time, i used to play a game called Urban Rivals. In its prime, i met a lot of good people, a lot of in-game events took place and a lot of care and planning went into releasing balanced cards which wouldn't uproar the balance of the game whenever a new release took place.

However, over time, UR started shooting themselves in the foot at a rather alarming rate. Poor or no advertising whatsoever, lack of in-game events, miscommunications which led to many players feeling ripped off at times and, to top it all off, they also decided to create a new TCG to compete with themselves ( :huh: ) when they didn't have the means to do so while also leaving their main game to stagnate. This led to a mass exodus over time and a pretty major decrease when it comes to consumer trust.

In the meantime, i became more and more negative and jaded, to the point where i no longer had fun playing it and could only criticize harshly any staff related topics. Evidently, i left but the game still goes on (although i'm genuinely surprised it's still alive and that the game made it past 2016).

All this to say that i understand why people are negative and why they're more harsh than they need to be (sometimes). Despite all the disappointment and poor decision making, they still want the game to succeed.

Now, i also understand potterman's point of view. The game is doing poorly, the devs are having a bad time and the all the negative nancys keep piling on, making all of it even worse. Well, when you put it like that, it's quite easy to blame them. However, TLP (while being overly harsh at times) does bring solid arguments to the table and tries to get any sort of debate going (whether you like his style or not). Let's not make every naysayer sound like that guy that starts an opinion based thread, gets some sort of debate going only to make you realize halfway through that he treats his own opinion as undisputed, scientifically proven facts.

In conclusion, i can relate to both parties and also believe we can all contribute to a better 'Nauts. However, playing the blame game with each other won't achieve much other than flooding the forum with "i know better than you" posts so let's try to avoid that, shall we?

In case that doesn't work, we could kickstart a channel called Nauts Fan TV and put all that bickering to a more lucrative use. Just think about it - TLP would be DT, potterman could be Ty... uh, we still need to find someone who is adept at the "blud" and "fam" vernicular, though. But seriously, there are big buckaroos to be made here guys!

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 Post subject: Re: Interesting stuff from the Ronimo site
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 4:24 pm 
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I just want some communication, even if it's via a tech support person or someone not in Ronimo's office :shrug: .

Tbh, if the toxicity of the community was the main reason for Ronimo being silent, then they wouldn't have cut ties with the entire community, just the parts with toxicity. Which is why I don't believe that it is the main reason.

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 Post subject: Re: Interesting stuff from the Ronimo site
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 5:21 pm 
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monkeybusiness wrote:
In conclusion, i can relate to both parties and also believe we can all contribute to a better 'Nauts. However, playing the blame game with each other won't achieve much other than flooding the forum with "i know better than you" posts so let's try to avoid that, shall we?

In case that doesn't work, we could kickstart a channel called Nauts Fan TV and put all that bickering to a more lucrative use. Just think about it - TLP would be DT, potterman could be Ty... uh, we still need to find someone who is adept at the "blud" and "fam" vernicular, though. But seriously, there are big buckaroos to be made here guys!

I might have been harsh with my latest post, but my point is that even though I agree with a bunch of The Lord Protector's arguments against Ronimo, it doesn't help the game in anyway because it's already been posted a thousand times by various players. On the contrary, it makes up for an unwelcoming official game forum.

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