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 Post subject: Re: NOW LIVE: Update 4.6
 Post Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 10:43 am 
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Slevens wrote:
So why not nerf the damage bonus to 65-75% then or fix how it scales as Tom mentioned. Surely it's fine to leave Derpl like this for another week while you try to find a work around that doesn't completely butcher batcat, from what I've heard and see the vast majority of Derpl players don't even know about this and thus don't 'ruin' pubs by using it.


As stated before, I think affecting both in a stacking way is a lot more likely to be either too strong sometimes or too weak most of the time. It's a lot harder to get right in one go.

Affecting only slow is a lot safer and more consistent. And since both Derpl's own slow last 2.4 seconds and slows are more common in general, the upgrade is still an improved version of the one in 4.5. If you consider that to be too weak I could bump the effect to say 130%?

Also, separate stacking multipliers per cc is the only way currently available in the engine, so any other form of stacking would require hacks and/or workarounds.


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 Post subject: Re: NOW LIVE: Update 4.6
 Post Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 11:15 am 
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Jasper wrote:
Slevens wrote:
So why not nerf the damage bonus to 65-75% then or fix how it scales as Tom mentioned. Surely it's fine to leave Derpl like this for another week while you try to find a work around that doesn't completely butcher batcat, from what I've heard and see the vast majority of Derpl players don't even know about this and thus don't 'ruin' pubs by using it.


As stated before, I think affecting both in a stacking way is a lot more likely to be either too strong sometimes or too weak most of the time. It's a lot harder to get right in one go.

Affecting only slow is a lot safer and more consistent. And since both Derpl's own slow last 2.4 seconds and slows are more common in general, the upgrade is still an improved version of the one in 4.5. If you consider that to be too weak I could bump the effect to say 130%?

Also, separate stacking multipliers per cc is the only way currently available in the engine, so any other form of stacking would require hacks and/or workarounds.



The issue is unless you pump up the damage above a 100-150% damage buff or nerf it but allow it to proc on both snare and slow it's always going to be weaker than last patches version since last patches batcat proc'd extra fatcat damage + fatcat's splitcats.

It'd be nice to test two versions of it in a beta (not a large one a small one for changes that need to happen, you should really be using your beta as a test field during patches instead of only as a pre-patch test) so you can see which one works better.

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 Post subject: Re: NOW LIVE: Update 4.6
 Post Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 11:34 am 
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Jasper wrote:
Betas don't fix everything, unfortunately. For instance, this specific Derpl change was put into the first beta and wasn't even really mentioned on the forums as a problem.

Well, even if it was put into the first beta, no one checked it, since you mentioned those changes first time in Patch notes 4.6 beta 2 thread.

And when it happened - ta-da! - you had at least two comments about it. On the first page.
stev wrote:
Also, i haven't really played the new beta yet and havent looked thru all the file changes, but just gonna put it out there that someone should really look at catsuit. Im assuming it works just like qi'tara and smiles with their +dmg to enemies under effects: the upgrade states +x dmg against enemies, but in reality it checks for each effect and gives +x dmg per effect that evaluates to true.

...

Now we look at derpl's catsuit; instead of adding numbers to the multiplier like qi'tara and smiles (.4 and .35 respectively) it is a multiplication by 2. Also traps have slow on them as well. So trap = snared + slowed enemy = 2*2 (400%) bonus damage. I might be wrong on how that math works, the settings are labeled 'damageAdditiveMultiplierAgainstSlowed' etc.; not sure of the exact way things are multiplied but definitely 2 instances of multiplication.

edit: i was wrong and bad at math, but it still ends up being 300% AA damage.

FishmanDerp wrote:
New Bat Catsuit is kind of ridiculous because the CC damage boosts from slow and snare stack so you're left with this ridiculous 3x damage multiplier on your AA against snared targets for up to 2s depending on if they get BKM or not. Not sure how I feel about that.

This same problem happens with Dino Training but it's less noticeable due to how unreliable Dinos are.


I agree with "more betas - less people" statement though. And still, there're always several people around willing to help.


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 Post subject: Re: NOW LIVE: Update 4.6
 Post Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 1:33 pm 
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Sevenecho wrote:
And when it happened - ta-da! - you had at least two comments about it. On the first page.


Oh yeah, my bad, I remembered it wrong. Still no one claimed it was anything game-breaking, though they did express worry. Anyway, at the time I figured the window for the damage was small enough.

A new version is built right now, set to come out later today. Here's the tentative patch notes:

Commander Rocket
-Rocket Launch, damage increased from between 150 and 350 to 200 and 400.

Derpl
-Bat Catsuit, now applies 120% bonus damage to slowed enemies.

Dizzy
-Tipi teal, fixed the issue that both speed and lifetime of her shots got increased, resulting in a lot more than the intended 30% increase in range. Now it’s just speed, resulting in a 30% speed and range increase.

Ksenia
-Fury Blowout, fixed that when your stack of knives was filled and you hit your 3rd base attack it was possible to load an extra knife.

Sentry
-Black Hole Sun, projectile speed reduced by 10%.


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 Post subject: Re: NOW LIVE: Update 4.6
 Post Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 7:30 pm 
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Balance is a two-way street when getting involved with the community. I am glad there was a beta, but I didn't see a lot of conversation happening. I am guilty of this as well, for reserving my opinions even with beta experience.

Thank you for the Hotfix Jasper. This should help ease some of the changes.

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 Post subject: Re: NOW LIVE: Update 4.6
 Post Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 7:38 pm 
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Can you just clarify something:

Jasper wrote:
Sentry
-Black Hole Sun, projectile speed reduced by 10%.

This means reduced from its "new" value to its original one, right? It's not literally a 10% reduction?

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 Post subject: Re: NOW LIVE: Update 4.6
 Post Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 8:24 pm 
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Undo this:

Quote:
-Trap, now charges in the middle of Derpl instead of having an arming time when placed.


Traps were already nerfed, dont make it hard to place too.


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 Post subject: Re: NOW LIVE: Update 4.6
 Post Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 1:40 pm 
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Why is rocket's damage item on rocket launch now 9%? It was 12% before patch and it was a crap item back then too in terms of damage/solar value. Not even documented

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 Post subject: Re: NOW LIVE: Update 4.6
 Post Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 3:34 pm 
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I love the 50% speed upgrade for Max Focus. :redcheer: It gives a nice small tactical moves to Max. Catching an enemy with it, or escaping death with is fun. Now it doesnt feel OP, but a welcome addition. It also has a great synergy with duration upgrade, as now youll chase/escape a 1sec longer. Allows a new build for Max. But, I might change my opinion when some L1 Max murders me with it, lol.

Btw, I think it only affects X movement and not Y, if I am right? The movement feels different while in it, and its more of a boost to left or right rather than free +50% speed change. Anyway, better this way I suppose, intentional or not. :yoolip:

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 Post subject: Re: NOW LIVE: Update 4.6
 Post Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 8:27 pm 
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Sam! wrote:
Why is rocket's damage item on rocket launch now 9%? It was 12% before patch and it was a crap item back then too in terms of damage/solar value. Not even documented

It's because these percents are auto-calculated from game data, so the base damage being changed means the flat number that the item adds is worth less percent. I'm assuming the hotfix buff to base damage means the item is comparatively a lower percent.

I could be wrong on what point it became 9% though.


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