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 Post subject: Re: ronimo's sketchy decisions - what do you think?
 Post Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 4:02 pm 
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Luckytime wrote:
Like people have said, just make a new exclusive skin.

Am I the only person here who understands the true cost of making a new skin? It's even not one person's labor and more than a week of their time. I ment offering/promising anything else except something labeled “NO-timed-exclusive-so-just-get-it-some-other-way-later”. Losing trust during active KS campaign is the last thing to do.

Also if you (Ronimo) offer something else worth you might get even more money from your previous backers. BTW they got 5 years older and many got jobs now.

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 Post subject: Re: ronimo's sketchy decisions - what do you think?
 Post Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 4:41 pm 
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I see the world in a very utilitarian way, and utilitarianism states that you should do that which helps the greatest amount of people.

And I'd say that people getting access to something they don't have at all goes above wanting people to not have soemthing you do.
Of course, this ignores the whole legal thing (but seriously, what are you going to do, sue Ronimo so they have to file for bankruptcy and nobody can use the skins?) and the morality about not keeping promises.


But if it helps Ronimo, and by extention, the community (including the people here), isn't that a good thing?

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 Post subject: Re: ronimo's sketchy decisions - what do you think?
 Post Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 5:40 pm 
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I see where you're coming from GIS, but wouldn't the option that benefits the most people be a completely new skin or two? That way instead of some people getting a shiny new incentive to back the kickstarter, we can all have one.

I can see why people would be upset that they can't get the skins anymore, but they really were pushed hard as "exclusive" to the starstorm kickstarter. I would have backed it anyways, but I wouldn't have given it nearly as much as I did if it weren't for the exclusivity of those skins because I didn't have that much money at the time. The idea of having two "exclusive" skins was enough to get me to spend the money to get the both of them from what very little I had.

So not only would not including new skins lower the incentive of myself and everyone else who already have those skins from backing this particular kickstarter a higher amount than we normally would, but it would honestly really annoy me that I spent more money to get "exclusive" skins when I didn't have much money only for them to become available again, effectively making the entire reason why I gave that much money in the first place a lie.

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 Post subject: Re: ronimo's sketchy decisions - what do you think?
 Post Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 6:11 pm 
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Well, there IS a new skin coming with S&S2, its just not Kickstarter exclusive.

But overall I have to say, that while giving free stuff for Awesomenauts when backing SS2 is still somewhat ok, giving Exclusive skin (new or old) with an unrelated game is, well, not cool. Idea of Kickstarters is to sell your product and concept of it to the potential consumers who want to support THAT product, not selling exclusive things for other products for high price. It doesnt even give a General picture of how wanted the Kickstarter product is, it just shows how much people want something special for something else.

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 Post subject: Re: ronimo's sketchy decisions - what do you think?
 Post Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 6:35 pm 
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Just to be clear, I'm not saying that anyone at Ronimo has committed (or, in my opinion, has attempted to) an offence. It's just good to know what your rights are. Though of a different nature, if you've been following the Lootbox Controversy, you'll know all about that—the Dutch aren't having much fun with Steam at the moment as a result of their gambling laws.

Alpha Z wrote:
...but it would honestly really annoy me that I spent more money to get "exclusive" skins when I didn't have much money only for them to become available again, effectively making the entire reason why I gave that much money in the first place a lie.

This is particularly interesting, and an exact (and perhaps more understandable) demonstration of what I'm talking about.

Alpha only donated as much money as they did to the Kickstarter because they believed—reasonably, as it was stated very clearly and repeatedly—the skins would be exclusive. That's fine.

If said skins then become available again at a later date, the whole pretense in which Alpha donated effectively becomes void, because the skins are no longer exclusive as represented to them by the first Kickstarter. Even if Ronimo didn't intend to, and I don't really believe they did, they've mislead their customers at any rate.

I shouldn't need to explain to you all why material misrepresentation (i.e. "lying") to ensure or support a sale is both unethical and illegal. If it weren't, Apple would be advertising iPhones as a cure for cancer by now.

Obviously, this is all very exaggerated—spirit, not letter, and all that—but I'd say it's better not to break the law even if nothing would ever come of it, Ronimo.

Do the sensible thing and come up with a... Spandex skin for... Deadlift or someone. I don't know.

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 Post subject: Re: ronimo's sketchy decisions - what do you think?
 Post Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 10:06 pm 
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Exclusive is exclusive - period. It doesn't matter whether this sort of thing happened in other games or not (reusing of exclusive assets), cause it's still wrong.

That's one thing but accusations and spreading false drama about "stealing" funds from kickstarter starstorm campaign is utter bs.

SS II kickstarter should have been better planned though - with stretch goals and really cool rewards for backing. If you want to use nauts content that already exist, you should rather include some of premium skins / announcers, not exclusive content that people payed extra for.

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 Post subject: Re: ronimo's sketchy decisions - what do you think?
 Post Posted: Sat Jun 30, 2018 1:07 am 
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If you create a new exclusive skin, you'll be repeating this conversation in a few years on top of the Leon and Coco one.

Don't repeat the mistake of exclusives. Or rather, make no promise that they won't be available years down the line. The strong wording on Leon and Coco is really the source of conflict here.

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 Post subject: Re: ronimo's sketchy decisions - what do you think?
 Post Posted: Sat Jun 30, 2018 1:15 am 
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Xelrog, you may now join the “absolutely right” group.

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Say no to SAM wrote:
Give this guy a duck for making such a good job with this thread

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Nobody can see it. Maybe instead of asking for ducks, you should put it in your signature.


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 Post subject: Re: ronimo's sketchy decisions - what do you think?
 Post Posted: Sat Jun 30, 2018 1:58 pm 
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IsoKoala wrote:
Well, there IS a new skin coming with S&S2, its just not Kickstarter exclusive.

But overall I have to say, that while giving free stuff for Awesomenauts when backing SS2 is still somewhat ok, giving Exclusive skin (new or old) with an unrelated game is, well, not cool. Idea of Kickstarters is to sell your product and concept of it to the potential consumers who want to support THAT product, not selling exclusive things for other products for high price. It doesnt even give a General picture of how wanted the Kickstarter product is, it just shows how much people want something special for something else.


Exactly what I think aswell, I don't think the original post was only about skins being exclusive or not, but also that they're exploiting the loyalty of Awesomenauts players to fund their unwanted series while none of that benefits Awesomenauts.

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 Post subject: Re: ronimo's sketchy decisions - what do you think?
 Post Posted: Sat Jun 30, 2018 2:59 pm 
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Niki wrote:
their unwanted series

I don't agree and I'm not the only one.

Niki wrote:
they're exploiting the loyalty of Awesomenauts players to fund their unwanted series while none of that benefits Awesomenauts.

Even if the kickstarter doesn't immediately benefits Awesomenauts, failing with s&s2 would be bad for Ronimo in general and it would obviously affect Awesomenauts too in the long term.

I don't get all this hate towards ronimo, they indeed asked something questionable but they could've just added it to the kickstarter without asking. I fully understand why a lot of people don't want the skins as rewards but it's not a reason to to just say zork about everything they are doing and did in the past.

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