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 Post subject: Re: Whats the punishment for leaving during character choosi
 Post Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2018 1:52 am 
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That opens up a whole can of worms labelled "I don't think this player is desirable to play with, so I'll save you the trouble and forfeit your matches for you."

You are not the arbiter of which matches your third ally does or does not meaningfully get to play, no matter how bad an experience you believe it would be for them. I'm not saying you've done anything wrong (we all know who the awkward allies are), but... you know, cans of worms.

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 Post subject: Re: Whats the punishment for leaving during character choosi
 Post Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2018 7:11 am 
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SandyDragginz wrote:
It does, I don't mean undesirable in a sense of lack of skill, I mean Players who straight up refuse to play and will force the team to lose. The community is small enough to where we can see those people because they do it Every match. If I leave during character select, that third player takes no hit. And I believe I had a valid reason for doing so.


For your case I understand the reasoning of logging out.

But unfortunately, that wont help the third player. He will most likely be in the next que with the same person, and just has to wait 6 minutes longer for it. Or if he gets a lucky escape and goes into another game, someone else will still get to play with the AFKer. There is really no way we can save anyone. Still, I understand your personal reasons not to want to participate game where AFKer (or very verbal abuser etc) is with you.

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 Post subject: Re: Whats the punishment for leaving during character choosi
 Post Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2018 12:21 pm 
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As Xelrog said, it wouldn't be an issue if Ronimo acted against the disappointing players.

They don't, though, so it is.

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Say no to SAM wrote:
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 Post subject: Re: Whats the punishment for leaving during character choosi
 Post Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2018 12:26 am 
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The Lord Protector wrote:
As Xelrog said, it wouldn't be an issue if Ronimo acted against the disappointing players.

They don't, though, so it is.

It doesn't really matter if it's an issue, though, because Ronimo's not going to act against Sandy for it. :ayla:

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 Post subject: Re: Whats the punishment for leaving during character choosi
 Post Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2018 1:42 am 
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Say no to SAM wrote:
Give this guy a duck for making such a good job with this thread

Nekomian wrote:
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DeezNauts wrote:
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 Post subject: Re: Whats the punishment for leaving during character choosi
 Post Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2018 3:26 am 
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The Lord Protector wrote:
That opens up a whole can of worms labelled "I don't think this player is desirable to play with, so I'll save you the trouble and forfeit your matches for you."

You are not the arbiter of which matches your third ally does or does not meaningfully get to play, no matter how bad an experience you believe it would be for them..


So I can be the arbiter or grieving, Not participating, lag switching, and get no penalties. But in doing something I feel is right, leaving at Player select so avoid bullying, warrants punishment?

Honestly when it comes to leaving, They should have a "reasaon Select"

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 Post subject: Re: Whats the punishment for leaving during character choosi
 Post Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2018 4:09 am 
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SandyDragginz wrote:
So I can be the arbiter or grieving, Not participating, lag switching, and get no penalties. But in doing something I feel is right, leaving at Player select so avoid bullying, warrants punishment?

You could argue that it's justified, and many would agree with you, but leaving at char select is never "right" unless there's a little old lady going into cardiac arrest outside your window. Let's be real, you're not doing a good deed. At best you're doing an evil that's justified by a greater evil.

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 Post subject: Re: Whats the punishment for leaving during character choosi
 Post Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2018 4:40 am 
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And that old lady Needs medical attention immediately. If you put her in an ambulance that stops at every traffic light and goes the speed limit. she has a much less chance of living. There's a reason Ambulances have special privileges. And if I were driving her to the hospital, I would in a 0 Zork traffic rush too, and cops know that.

That third player wasn't my primary concern. But in doing in what I did, he/she didn't lose rank that time. As opposed to having their time wasted, being bullied, and being forced to lose to the shenanigans that awesomenauts already deals with on a daily basis. I stand by my choice. It's only "not right" because ronimo has implemented a penalty" But it doesn't have to be that way.

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 Post subject: Re: Whats the punishment for leaving during character choosi
 Post Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2018 12:46 pm 
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SandyDragginz wrote:
So I can be the arbiter or grieving, Not participating, lag switching, and get no penalties.

Nowhere have I said that.

Cheating, griefing, or otherwise being intentionally detrimental to your team are not things that should be permitted at all. We, however, can't dispense punishments in those cases. That falls to Ronimo.

The fact that Ronimo isn't dealing with the problem does not give players a free pass effectively to, albeit with good intentions, ruin other players' games.

SandyDragginz wrote:
But in doing something I feel is right, leaving at Player select so avoid bullying, warrants punishment?

Yes, because you left a match before its end. That's not permitted in any MOBA (indeed, in any game) that I know.

I'm not saying that what you did was done maliciously or with the intent to waste the third player's time, but having a poor sportsman on your team is not justification for leaving.

SandyDragginz wrote:
Honestly when it comes to leaving, They should have a "reasaon Select"

What, some sort of "griefing", "chat abuse", or "feeding"?

I can't wait for a mass of players to start leaving matches as soon as someone feeds first blood with the justification of "the game has an option for it". You could tell me that Ronimo would act against players that abuse the system in that manner, to which I would respond with something along the lines of "no they won't and you know they won't".

SandyDragginz wrote:
And that old lady Needs medical attention immediately. If you put her in an ambulance that stops at every traffic light and goes the speed limit. she has a much less chance of living. There's a reason Ambulances have special privileges. And if I were driving her to the hospital, I would in a 0 Zork traffic rush too, and cops know that.

It's a good thing you're not a little old lady in desperate need of medical attention, but instead someone playing a video game. I'll take "false equivalence" for $500, Alex.

At any rate, that analogy falls apart when you consider that the police, fire, and ambulance services are not strictly allowed to speed or disobey traffic orders—they're still breaking the law. Fortunately for them, they systems in place specifically permit their violations in exceptional circumstances and waive them.

There is no system in place to allow players to leave matches in Awesomenauts. A better analogy would be someone running three red lights because they really want to get to their child's school to cheer them on in the 400m track and field—done with good intentions but not permitted at any rate.

Ambulances are also never permitted to run a traffic light under any circumstances, paitent or otherwise. That's driving without due regard for safety. An officer would we well within their remit to pull said ambulance over, even if doing so would effectively kill the patient. I don't know what repercussions the officer would face for that, although I'd assume they're protected from manslaughter.

That's probably a philosophy question in a textbook somewhere.


SandyDragginz wrote:
That third player wasn't my primary concern. But in doing in what I did, he/she didn't lose rank that time. As opposed to having their time wasted, being bullied, and being forced to lose to the shenanigans that awesomenauts already deals with on a daily basis. I stand by my choice.

If other players don't want to deal with that harassment, time wasting, and "being forced to lose", they're more than welcome to leave matches of their own accord. They will suffer consequences for it, but at that point, they've subscribed to it.

Alternatively, you could both take a deep breath, mute the third person, and try to play around their lack of cooperation. If they're griefing to the point where you lose the match, send it to Ronimo—nothing will probably come of it, but it's the right thing to do.

SandyDragginz wrote:
It's only "not right" because ronimo has implemented a penalty" But it doesn't have to be that way.

"It's only wrong because it's not allowed."

If you think that there should be a system to allow players to safely leave matches, feel free to design one. Dota 2 has its clever abandonment rules, where you may leave a match if someone abandons, without being matchmaking locked (although you still get a loss). If someone leaves before first blood, the whole match isn't scored and everyone is safe to go without a loss. It's a neat system.

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Say no to SAM wrote:
Give this guy a duck for making such a good job with this thread

Nekomian wrote:
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DeezNauts wrote:
Nobody can see it. Maybe instead of asking for ducks, you should put it in your signature.


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 Post subject: Re: Whats the punishment for leaving during character choosi
 Post Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2018 12:59 pm 
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Another mental collapse of the forum.


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