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 Post subject: Re: Ronimo Update - Dec. 7th, 2018
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2018 2:37 pm 
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So why not just hand us ASM and let the community take the reigns if you're so busy with other stuff?

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 Post subject: Re: Ronimo Update - Dec. 7th, 2018
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2018 3:44 pm 
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This is probably the cleanest option.

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 Post subject: Re: Ronimo Update - Dec. 7th, 2018
 Post Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 6:09 pm 
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Not probably, it is the cleanest and easiest way for Ronimo to keep nauts alive. I've said it many times before and I'll say it again: Give us ASM, we'll make patches for you to release but do not change any of what the community decides upon with said patches.

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 Post subject: Re: Ronimo Update - Dec. 7th, 2018
 Post Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 7:45 pm 
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Community patches would require one of their coders no matter what. Ronimo isn't willing to invest any resources to Nauts until their new IP is complete plain and simple.

If you really wanted to tell them to implement community patches and see if you could change their minds though there's no point in posting on the forums for that you'd need to go to their discord, and say that. It's the only place you can get a response. They read these occasionally, but they never respond. Although I doubt it'd change anything at all.

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 Post subject: Re: Ronimo Update - Dec. 7th, 2018
 Post Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 7:59 pm 
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Slevens wrote:
Not probably, it is the cleanest and easiest way for Ronimo to keep nauts alive. I've said it many times before and I'll say it again: Give us ASM, we'll make patches for you to release but do not change any of what the community decides upon with said patches.


I still have to disagree with this, even if it's good in theory or a minority opinion; leaving major balance changes to the discretion of a few select group of people has *never* worked well in my experiences. Some of the changes are good yes, but ultimately it leads into too much toxic behavior as well as individuals trying to get their own mains buffed, or even small subsets of the group essentially dictating the entire conversation flow. Lack of that subjectivity and inclusivity in certain situations is what makes me have doubts in this method, and the previous 3 or 4 (or even more) attempts at this method makes me question the outcome of a future one even more so.

To clarify: I don't hate the idea by any means, but I personally feel it won't be successful given my experience with the community in this matter.

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 Post subject: Re: Ronimo Update - Dec. 7th, 2018
 Post Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 8:06 pm 
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Location: In my palace, mixing my martinis with paint thinner and a healthy squirt of epoxy adhesive.
Some development of the game, however lopsided and however bad, is better than no development of the game.

At this rate, the only way is up—I say go for it.

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 Post subject: Re: Ronimo Update - Dec. 7th, 2018
 Post Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2018 10:16 am 
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Quote:
but if we keep pouring resources into Nauts, it's not a good decision for the future of Ronimo"
Quote:
but they are still a studio that develops other projects that may have more chances at creativity, success, and monetary income

Awesomenauts before support dropped:
Image

Shawarmageddon:
Image

"Hey, let's stop working on our successful and well-selling game in favor of something nobody wanted."


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 Post subject: Re: Ronimo Update - Dec. 7th, 2018
 Post Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2018 2:21 pm 
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mugg1991 wrote:
Awesomenauts before support dropped:
Image

Shawarmageddon:
Image

"Hey, let's stop working on our successful and well-selling game in favor of something nobody wanted."


Uhm... last patch w/ updates was: Image . Not in 2017...

I don't think you can justify "dropped support" when people were still working on characters and fixing at least *some* issues (arguably which issues they addressed or even how they addressed them is debatable). Whether or not success happens with the new IP / release is variable though, but you can't blame shawarma for something that it didn't affect... The numbers have fluctuated like this on steam charts even before F2P *AND* with active development stages.

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 Post subject: Re: Ronimo Update - Dec. 7th, 2018
 Post Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2018 2:35 pm 
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don't say "before support dropped" when the game was simply returning to its regular player count after the f2p stunt quickly proved itself to be a failure


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 Post subject: Re: Ronimo Update - Dec. 7th, 2018
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 12:32 pm 
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The Lord Protector wrote:
Japiepatatzakie wrote:
...somewhat confusing visual representation of player inputs.

I agree with the rest, but what do you mean by this?


What I mean is that the certain options don't act and look so intuitive. Things that could visually 'speak for itself' but don't. Unless you're a veteran, especially on the receivers end i've heard countless times that they stopped understanding what's happening. I think awesomenauts players need to know an unreasonable amount in-game mechanics to keep up and keep the game fun for them. Imagine you jump into the game right now, I feel like veterans underestimate how much information gets thrown over new players, even in the start of the tutorial. I feel like a lot of parts of the game are unnecessarily complex or not gets the players attention enough. I know this is somewhat the nature of MOBA's but to just give a couple of common examples, sort of a rant:

There have been a lot of reports of ksenia AA cancelling with scissors and bursting players to the point it was widely believed ksenia players were cheating, same issues with Gnaws plant burst. Like there should honestly be a sound or small explosion on impact. The game in general is really unforgiving with glass cannons just snowballing players not knowing how to fight back. On this day people are still confused where the hell Snork and Qitara's damage comes from. The build is locked into very specific, non-visual changing upgrades that spike them out of control. New players believe they are safe when nobody is on screen and full hp but then snork or qitara teleports on you and kills you in about a second. This is basically what ksenia and gnaw did too in their prime.

Immunity with it's inconsistencies is incredibly painful for newer players. There is something wrong when only a small group is willing to do some research, and think they understand how it works but still gets it wrong. Why aren't all immunities the same? Why does yuri bubble not have a clear visual for when immunity is bought? Why does immunity Swig and shield swig look nearly the same? Don't even get started on siege derpl ignoring cocoons. But also like really simple things people just have to figure out, health creeps cleanse dot while other heal sources don't. Slow doesn't stack, amp/weaken don't stack, blind duration doesn't stack, shield does stack, time slow stacks. Pull upgrades feel more like lagspikes than an in-game feature. Rocco has good visuals for being in vengeance, but then again ted mcpain in stimpack is barely noticeable. Sawblade retract just 'deletes' the saw in Skree his body, Dizzy bomb appears out of thin air. Ronimo's statement "green is just for healing" also went into the trash due to inconsistencies, especially with 'haunted' skin themes.

I'm not sure if it's just weird mechanics or the lack of a visual representation for the mechanic, but either way I think it's core design that goes hand-to-hand. I also played a role in not turning mines into DoT, unless the visual for mines was changed into a fire bomb that dissolved into a small fire when touched. Yeah you could argue it's nitpicking but it's just for overall consistency.

When looking at other types of games on the market that do this incredibly well then first game that comes to mind is Rocket League. It's one of it's major strengths. You need like 3 seconds to understand the entire game which makes it approachable, you can see pro players fly through the air and hit the ball and accept the ball physics right away. Of course you can't really compare games like this but it's just to show it's important. The quick level of understanding of how players move in aerials, but not being able to perform the button inputs themselfs makes players strife to be better and makes tournaments more fun to watch for a wide audience. In awesomenauts I feel like players that start out feel alienated and demotivates them.

Even if we look at other games with complex mechanics like Overwatch, you can tell they really paid attention to consistency and making clear what abilities do. Visuals in mech suits, colouring, healing colour. I haven't played it a lot but if you dig deeper you will notice small details for sure. They make sure certain abilities feel intuitive and big so it grabs the players attention. A lot of those ideas also came from team fortress 2, where a lot of attention to detail went into (atleast when it was released). Details like the medic gun beam that has translucent "+" icons floating to indicate healing, the team colours and team bases are different. RED has wooden structures while BLU is more metallic. I can appreciate attention to those details to help the player differentiate and understand parts of the game better and I feel like the developers from nauts were a bit inexperienced on some of these things, I hope their next title can pay closer attention to those details.


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