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 Post subject: Re: Patch 2.6 beta 1
 Post Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2014 5:54 am 
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A few things from me:

- They all seem to have a common problem of running into the turrets until they die. It seems as though they put priority to trying to kill their target than their own safety. It's kinda easy to bait them into running into the turret until they pop. They still fire at the turret though and with those bot cheats can deal some VERY heavy damage to it.

- Coco bot seems to run into some kind of logic error sometimes. She can see me from the other side of a platform or wall and seems to understand that, yes, she can hit me, but it might take a while before it clicks that she can use Ball Lightning to hit me. It's not like it's on cooldown or anything, especially with the nigh non-existent cooldowns that cheaty bots have. Otherwise, she plays fine, though she's more prone to hugging turrets than the others since she's melee.

- Similarly, I found that I can confuse Ayla bot a little bit. If there's two paths to me that are about equal distance, she kinda derps out and starts skipping back and forth between the two paths, but can't seem to pick one.

- And this has already been brought up, but the bots in general run into walls a lot. They eventually correct themselves, which is a step up from old Leon and Froggy bot who never seemed to get themselves unstuck. Still, they waste a lot of time getting stuck on steps and in corners, especially Vinnie bot.

- Something else that's been brought up is the bot's inhuman precision, especially noticeable with Leon and Rae bots. It's like Leon says, "Aha! I never miss!"
Old Leon bot could become fearsome if it picked up the right build and pull the never-miss tongues, but now that new Leon bot uses a generally better Tongue build and never builds clones first, it can be downright aggravating all the time.
Meanwhile, Rae bot's precision is pretty obvious being able to hit unbelievable off-screen Snipes. But she's kinda derpy in that if she seems to lose her selected target, she has a tendency to not pick a new target and completely waste the Snipe shot by firing off in the opposite direction.
There's probably a fix for Rae's target selection, but I'm not sure if there's a fix for them being insane aimbots. :/

Everything else I've run into or thought of has been addressed already, but there is something very important that I think should at least be discussed a little bit.

The removal of the only 4 stage upgrade.
I can understand the reason of not wanting to have to make a new art asset for just a single upgrade, but it also signifies the complete abandonment of the idea of 4 stage upgrades. While I can't say it with 100% certainty, I think that breaking some current upgrades into 4 stage upgrades could be a viable way to fix them.
It could help some upgrades scale better, especially the very expensive ones, or could help curb some 'Nauts power to peak later in the game.
It just seems like a bad idea in the long run to abandon the idea of having 4 stages for upgrades be a possibility.

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 Post subject: Re: Patch 2.6 beta 1
 Post Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2014 10:03 am 
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michael_ellis wrote:
any replay i start crashes the game :(

Could you email a couple of those crashing replays at joost@ronimo-games.com? What platform are you on?

DrrtyDigits wrote:
I dunno if these are some of the bot cheats that haven't been removed but, I noticed some CRAZY, and a I mean CRAZY, AA speeds on some characters. Vinnie was shooting a solid stream, STREAM, of bubbles. Something is wrong with the attack speed once these bots pick it. I noticed it for other characters too!

Botcheats are going to be reduced in final 2.6. Bots have had 35% cooldown reduction since launch of the game, but on some the new bots this shows much more than on the old ones. Right now botcheats are still set to full in the beta.


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 Post subject: Re: Patch 2.6 beta 1
 Post Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2014 10:14 am 
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Boy Skylark wrote:
- Coco bot seems to run into some kind of logic error sometimes. She can see me from the other side of a platform or wall and seems to understand that, yes, she can hit me, but it might take a while before it clicks that she can use Ball Lightning to hit me. It's not like it's on cooldown or anything, especially with the nigh non-existent cooldowns that cheaty bots have. Otherwise, she plays fine, though she's more prone to hugging turrets than the others since she's melee.


Coco Bot Mod here!

Hugging turrets has been fixed and will probably be in the next update. If you still have the replays of the Ball-wall issue, could you PM them to me? I'll see if I can work on it!

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 Post subject: Re: Patch 2.6 beta 1
 Post Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2014 10:24 am 
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If we feel we need 4 stages for some upgrades, then we'll add art for it in the store to be able to do that. The reason we removed it for Coco is that it really doesn't make much of a difference there and it was less work to just remove one stage than to make the art.


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 Post subject: Re: Patch 2.6 beta 1
 Post Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2014 11:15 am 
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I have turned the names of the bots into links so that people can report issues with bots directly in the topic of that bot. Please don't post AI bug reports in this general beta subforum, since bot creators might not see your reports here!


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 Post subject: Re: Patch 2.6 beta 1
 Post Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2014 11:23 am 
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Joost wrote:
I have turned the names of the bots into links so that people can report issues with bots directly in the topic of that bot. Please don't post AI bug reports in this general beta subforum, since bot creators might not see your reports here!



All my +1's

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 Post subject: Re: Patch 2.6 beta 1
 Post Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2014 11:48 pm 
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The loadout removal will change this game forever.

A while ago, a lot of balance suggestion would be met with: "It would be too situational" or "It's going to be outclassed by more reliable upgrades". Now not only upgrades that are currently seen as situational (bronco yest, RBAY, BKM, caterpillar king statue and so on) can see some usage in situations in which they grant an advantage, but now Fabian can create upgrades that are intentionally situational, widening his range of options.

I think this can be really good for the game, but it will have to be watched closely.
Props, Ronimo! :thumb:

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 Post subject: Re: Patch 2.6 beta 1
 Post Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 12:36 am 
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Joost wrote:
If we feel we need 4 stages for some upgrades, then we'll add art for it in the store to be able to do that. The reason we removed it for Coco is that it really doesn't make much of a difference there and it was less work to just remove one stage than to make the art.

yeah chuck's board having 4 stages wasn't exactly the pinnacle of popularity
but is there any reason it's the only balance change?

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 Post subject: Re: Patch 2.6 beta 1
 Post Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 3:32 am 
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Zardoz wrote:
Joost wrote:
If we feel we need 4 stages for some upgrades, then we'll add art for it in the store to be able to do that. The reason we removed it for Coco is that it really doesn't make much of a difference there and it was less work to just remove one stage than to make the art.

yeah chuck's board having 4 stages wasn't exactly the pinnacle of popularity
but is there any reason it's the only balance change?

Pretty sure its just so they wouldn't have to make an art asset for just one upgrade.
A little lazy, but considering the amount of balancing that's probably going to come around from the loadout/shop change, it was probably far far more worth their time to just tweak numbers and make Chuck's Board like every other upgrade in the game than to draw up the 4 slot lights for the shop and write new code to light up each increment just for the one upgrade.

And I'm really thankful that Joost replied and said something about it.
Good to know that 4 stages on upgrades is still something that maybe might happen. Restricting all the scaling upgrades to just 2 expensive/mediocre stages or 3 maybe moderately priced stages is kind of a problem in my opinion.
Maybe with all the upcoming balance changes, 4 stages could become something more common. Who knows? :shrug:

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 Post subject: Re: Patch 2.6 beta 1
 Post Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 11:08 am 
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rpvarela wrote:
The loadout removal will change this game forever.

A while ago, a lot of balance suggestions would be met with: "It would be too situational" or "It's going to be outclassed by more reliable upgrades". Now not only upgrades that are currently seen as situational (bronco yeast, RBAY, BKM, caterpillar king statue and so on) can see some usage in situations in which they grant an advantage, but now Fabian can create upgrades that are intentionally situational, widening his range of options.

I think this can be really good for the game, but it will have to be watched closely.

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