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 Post subject: Re: Disable Rocket for now
 Post Posted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 5:58 pm 
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Agree entirely with Diz.

I've said it a thousand times and I will say it again: I think the Rocketpocalypse was massively overblown. I'm not saying Rocket wasn't ludiciously powerful on release, but personally Ted McPain was far worse and there wasn't nearly as much backlash for him.
I still think the biggest problem with this game and any game in general is the playerbase around them. Rocket was released during the month of "oh * free skins", which meant that there were a lot of inexperienced or brand new players playing because "oh * free skins." Rocket so far is the only truly "overpowered" release we've had since the F2P launch. (Not including Smiles who again is more buggy than he is Overpowered) Add in the fact that Rocket was released at arguably the worst possible time (during a convention AND during an event that would attract a huge number of inexperienced players) and there's now a stigma around Rocket as the "broken OP instawin 'naut."

Overwatch experienced the same thing with Sombra. All the hype leading up to a fairly mediocre character release has lead many to label Sombra as "trash tier" even though she's honestly pretty good now. (shameless self promotion lul) Rocket is the exact same but in reverse: people were incredibly excited for Rocket and then Ronimo just went dead silent when they released an insanely broken character into the game. With a few more character releases we'll have some crazy robot horse that can summon a magical bongo to make everyone do 30% more damage, and while most people will accept Rocket for who he is there will still be people who were scared by Rocket's release complaining about how broken he is in the Qui'Tara X Yuri meta or whatever.

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 Post subject: Re: Disable Rocket for now
 Post Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2017 1:31 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Disable Rocket for now
 Post Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 7:28 pm 
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I think the thing people who are defending rocket's current state are failing to understand is that just because he is beatable, does not mean he isn't throwing the game off Balance. Look at the first paragraph when the patch notes to 4.3.1 came out. Ronimo very well knows this character needed to be toned down. They of course didn't know how much to nerf him by.

Anyone here arguing that he should be removed is saying it wasn't enough and I agree. A naut with the smallest hit box that literally had to be increased in a patch by 20% with a fairly high speed and 3 ranged abilities that have 0 risk should not be dealing so much damage. Other Mobas and any other game that can call themselves competitive must understand the balance of risk vs reward. Rocket has minimal risk to his abilities. I would honestly say the only damn risk to the character is that he needs to get somewhat close to throw his laser trap but "oh jeez that's sooo risky!" either give him risk (that would mean reworking the character which is essentially out of the question) or nerf hammer his damage.Image

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 Post subject: Re: Disable Rocket for now
 Post Posted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 4:16 am 
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Aaron12906m wrote:
I would honestly say the only damn risk to the character is that he needs to get somewhat close to throw his laser trap but "oh jeez that's sooo risky!" either give him risk (that would mean reworking the character which is essentially out of the question) or nerf hammer his damage.


It's only a risk if you have a penchant for jumping straight into Derpl snares. Laser Trap is oppressive space control that practically shuts down a chunk of the map. So not even that is a risk.

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 Post subject: Re: Disable Rocket for now
 Post Posted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 7:11 am 
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HockFaraday wrote:
Aaron12906m wrote:
I would honestly say the only damn risk to the character is that he needs to get somewhat close to throw his laser trap but "oh jeez that's sooo risky!" either give him risk (that would mean reworking the character which is essentially out of the question) or nerf hammer his damage.


It's only a risk if you have a penchant for jumping straight into Derpl snares. Laser Trap is oppressive space control that practically shuts down a chunk of the map. So not even that is a risk.



Actually Rocket can shoot himself out of Derpls traps lol. So no, that is not a risk. :mrgreen:


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 Post subject: Re: Disable Rocket for now
 Post Posted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 1:40 pm 
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Aaron12906m wrote:
Image

+1
I agree with Ronimo's statement on Stream that "a lot of people still think Rocket's OP without trying out the new changes, and you can't just look at numbers and say that something is or isn't fine." In particular the change to laser trap's "tick rate": this is game balance jargon that you can't understand through numbers alone. But in game Laser Trap is a lot better now.

I again: still think Smiles is comparatively far worse than Rocket.

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 Post subject: Re: Disable Rocket for now
 Post Posted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 2:44 pm 
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GuyBrush wrote:
In particular the change to laser trap's "tick rate": this is game balance jargon that you can't understand through numbers alone.

Tick rate is the duration between each tick of damage an ability deals per second. A tick rate of 0.5s would indicate an attack speed of 120—hence, two attacks a second (attack speed being quantified as the number of attacks within one minute).

Laser Trap's tick rate was increased from 0.12s to 0.18s: a 50% increase in the duration of time that passes between each instance of damage. Effectively, the attack speed was reduced from 500 to 333.3..., a substantial nerf.

As each tick deals 60 damage, Laser Trap's raw DPS is equal to its attack speed.

I admit, I have no idea why Commander Rocket uses tick time instead of attack speed like everyone else does.

EDIT: as I have been made aware, Laser Trap actually inflicts a tiny DoT (for reasons best pinned down to insanity/glue ingestion), so you may ignore this and pretend instead that I was making burbling noises through my teeth.

If you ignore the lunacy that is a micro-DoT, this is still correct.

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Last edited by The Lord Protector on Tue Sep 05, 2017 10:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Disable Rocket for now
 Post Posted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 4:39 pm 
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The Lord Protector wrote:
GuyBrush wrote:
In particular the change to laser trap's "tick rate": this is game balance jargon that you can't understand through numbers alone.

Tick rate is the duration between each tick of damage an ability deals per second. A tick rate of 0.5s would indicate an attack speed of 120—hence, two attacks a second (attack speed being quantified as the number of attacks within one minute).

Laser Trap's tick rate was increased from 0.12s to 0.18s: a 50% increase in the duration of time that passes between each instance of damage. Effectively, the attack speed was reduced from 500 to 333.3..., a substantial nerf.

As each tick deals 60 damage, Laser Trap's raw DPS is equal to its attack speed.

I admit, I have no idea why Commander Rocket uses tick time instead of attack speed like everyone else does.

Because it's a DoT

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 Post subject: Re: Disable Rocket for now
 Post Posted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 5:26 pm 
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Dealing damage over time is not the same as being a damage-over-time effect.

Rage deals continual damage to everything within its AoE, but does not qualify, and should not be referred to, as a DoT. Laser Trap is much the same as Rage in this regard, and should really use attack speed for consistency.

A DoT is effectively a chunk of guaranteed, delayed damage, like Spit, Earthquake, and Blaze.

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 Post subject: Re: Disable Rocket for now
 Post Posted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 7:37 pm 
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The Lord Protector wrote:
Dealing damage over time is not the same as being a damage-over-time effect.

Rage deals continual damage to everything within its AoE, but does not qualify, and should not be referred to, as a DoT. Laser Trap is much the same as Rage in this regard, and should really use attack speed for consistency.

A DoT is effectively a chunk of guaranteed, delayed damage, like Spit, Earthquake, and Blaze.

It's a DoT.
It works the same way that Blaze, Spit, Earthquake, Incendiary Mines, Prismatic Moon Dust, Eternal Fire, and many other things work, except on a very quick and small basis.
(Also am I the only one who misses the original Skolldir Earthquake?)

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