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 Post subject: Post Mortum Structure Damage
 Post Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 2:06 pm 
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So I was playing against a push comp the other day who was able to shut our team down pretty hard. This dragged out the game and the match came down to the wire.

Then this happened

As you can see, we were all melee nauts. Thankfully Rattle wave hits multiple times over a short period of time. But this brings up the question, how many nauts can damage a structure post mortum?

So far, all that comes to mind is any naut with a projectile that could land shortly after being killed (Especially Sentry's mines), Bullets on Skree's Sawblade, Weedlings, maybe Homeless Gnome, Polymorph, Time Rift Humming Droid, Cloaking Skin, Romona, and rattle wave. I know that DOT on Genji's AA used to deal DOT to structures and I think DOT on Lonestar's dynamite did the same. I don't know if they still do, nor do I recall any other DOT affecting structures.

Is this everything that deals structure damage past death, or is there something else I'm missing? Also, are there any exceptions to the projectile landing properly after death for anyone?

Also, shoutouts to Dchu215. I snagged the video for this from his live stream. Find his Twitch Here

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 Post subject: Re: Post Mortum Structure Damage
 Post Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 7:00 am 
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I think this is nothing but sync lag. The damage was enough to kill it, but your dynamite was rendered and applyed before it seems. So the game counted your death and the other three deaths before accepting the status change of the core, thus ending the game.
Happens often enough that you kill your opponent in the second after the cores death or before and still applying damage to the core :shrug:

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 Post subject: Re: Post Mortum Structure Damage
 Post Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 5:17 pm 
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sLy wrote:
I think this is nothing but sync lag. The damage was enough to kill it, but your dynamite was rendered and applyed before it seems. So the game counted your death and the other three deaths before accepting the status change of the core, thus ending the game.
Happens often enough that you kill your opponent in the second after the cores death or before and still applying damage to the core :shrug:


I was playing Jimmy on blue this round. The Lonestar was someone else streaming the game.

I'm fairly certain that raddle wave's third hit is what took the base out. The third hit of raddle wave applies damage three separate times so what I think happened is that the second or third tick of damage was enough to take out the core.

I had a similar thing happen playing as Genji since DOT on hit AA also applies to structures (Or at least it used to). Our opponents thought it was a glitch, but I'm pretty sure it's just the mechanics working as intended.

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 Post subject: Re: Post Mortum Structure Damage
 Post Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 5:36 pm 
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Diz Hydron wrote:
I'm fairly certain that raddle wave's third hit is what took the base out. The third hit of raddle wave applies damage three separate times so what I think happened is that the second or third tick of damage was enough to take out the core.

This is what it looks like, although those aftershocks do deal very low structure damage—quite unfortunate, really.

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 Post subject: Re: Post Mortum Structure Damage
 Post Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 5:41 pm 
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Pretty much every attack in the game can deal damage after you die. Afaik death doesn't stop aas in progress (Nothing else does which is why aa cancelling techs work).

There are no dots that do damage to structures anymore. There are no particle effects (such as skree's saw bullets) that do damage to structures.

The drill dying has a pretty significant delay on it. If you ever get into a situation where the base is 1 hit away from death you can clearly notice the delay. Obviously it varies with the ping of the host.

It would be perfectly possible for a backdooring Leon without a clone to be killed and he kills the base anyway.

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 Post subject: Re: Post Mortum Structure Damage
 Post Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:17 pm 
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Isn't there an element of variation between players when the base delay is extended due to connection issues? I mean, I'm not saying this in terms of certainty. I frankly have no idea how it works, but I had made some observations sometime back when experiencing massive base destruction delay. I recall a few times where I asked my teammates how much overall lag they saw, and checked their replays and found drastically different results. Typically, there was at least one person who's game ended as the base hit 0 while the others were still able to play after the base's collision was destroyed. Additionally, replay data varied in situations where one person died at the last second. One person's showed the game ending before the player died, One showed the person still alive, but still counted the after base kill as part of the K/D of the player while the first did not, while the last showed both the kill, and the play time after the base went down. This was before replay ID's were a thing so I don't know if this could be replicated in nauts in its current state, but it's something I observed.

This isn't concrete, but it seems to me that an overabundance of lag usually results in variation between player perception of the end of the game. This instance was universally perceived pretty similarly across the board. I was Vcing with my team mates on blue at the time and the stream shows the red team also responded in sync to the absurdity of the end of the match. This could be completely off, but it makes me think that reddle wave is the culpret here.

Speaking of reddle wave, is Jimmy the only melee naut who can deal non-lag related, post mortum structure damage without using projectiles like missiles, frozen hammer, etc?

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 Post subject: Re: Post Mortum Structure Damage
 Post Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:32 pm 
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No all melee nauts can due to the delay between the click and the damage being dealt afaik

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 Post subject: Re: Post Mortum Structure Damage
 Post Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2017 9:38 pm 
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do u even play nauts, this is just standard lag that happens all the time - he hits the base for enough to kill it at the same time you hit them for enough to kill them, both die. also, since rattle wave is a damageshield im fairly certain it cant deal damage after death.

also it's spelled postmortem, not mortum.

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